Why are unholy and aff being gutted

PVP Arenas
21

I do have a well thought out nerf, nerf cleave, improved deathcoil cleaves coils, just remove it, it will HALF our overall dmg output, but keep us viable and still good single target, for pvp. We dont even like the cleave it does, it break’s cc and we are not trying to kill the second target, its just meter padding and thats bad design, people can even play around it by just standing apart. :confused:

The improved deathcoil even increase’s deathcoil dmg by 15%, the exact same nerf that was applied. Why have the talent at all? Just remove the 15% from it? lmfao.

And yes thats correct, we have good pressure when we press everything, then it falls off, where as in the past it was a slow build up to immense pressure, but ever since our ms effect was gutted we just cant keep up with rogues or wars.

While its funny that it was deemed to be nerfed, what you said kinda indicates it doesnt need a nerf, its literally only at the start of a match. Fine press a defensive, and well… its ogre.

Our cleave on coil and dot pressure makes it look like the data at the end of a match is skewed in our favour, but as an example I top the meter in dmg on unholy in the 3v3 shuffle’s, HOWEVER i dont win as much, where as on frost I come last each time but win many more games? Why? Burst window’s, however if I wasnt watching gameplay and just watching after game data I do like the devs would nerf deathcoil and dots, it shows they are not playing the game, simply bean counting it.

Again sure you can say cleave it bad, but its not nessessary or unjoyable, we are hitting things we dont want to hit, and if we dont have another class to vortex as 90% of the time grip is x2 on a 15s cd, and limb is a 2min cd, not exactly game breaking.

I think the foundation is fine, it’s the dissemination of data. If they hired 10 staff, and two played in each bracket for pvp 1500, 2k, 2400, blitz and rated bg’s. Then sat and watched class interaction during pvp, they would understand where the checks and balances need to be, flat percent nerfs and buffs are simply not the answer and its why its a mess.

If they removed all ‘passive cleave’ altogeather in pvp, it would be a better game. Look at warriors with sweeping strikes, great design, the warrior doesnt cleave, UNTIL HE ACTIVATES CLEAVE. Simple, dont have the dk cleave, UNTIL HE ACTIVATES CLEAVE. passive cleave is dumb.

22

“I wont post on my main, the bigger guys will make fun of me”

You. That’s you. kek.

23

No, im a healer. Unholy damage is absurd, micro cc’s grips, immunity to slows, perma immobilizing snare.

Ive healed 100’s of games this season and its usually affliction, DK, or the newest entry feral doing absurd amounts of damage.

24

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25

And yet, DK did way bellow expectation in the tournament.

26

Just depends on your criteria for nerfing things. This is why i called it bad class design. AWC players just survive it and then you’re left with steady state dk, which you could argue has problems, but these sort of things tend to get tee’d up for the nerf bat due to how it performs at more average ratings. and to your point, it generates asinine damage meters if you win quickly, so people go complain about it.

guess we’ll see how it all plays out. i support some rework but it looks like it might just lose some damage with no compensation

27

Then why isnt it represented in the top 100 2v2’s, 3v3, AWC or rated bgs?

Micro CC’s? You mean grip, the same micro CC thats our only gap closer? SO if we use it to CC we cant get to our target? or the pet stun on a 1.5 min cd? or the silence on a 45’s cd? What are you talking about exactly? and perma snare? Cant it be cleansed? or freedomed? Seems pretty ez to remove.

Aff and Dk, over Frost mages hunters and devostation, or ferals? Really… Really? Based on representation, what your saying is false, im not discounting your ‘feelings’, but they dont align with facts.

28

I think the nerfs are only justified if looking strickly at end game data and not gameplay.

As frost mages icelance was nerfed due to dmg it did, but bliz failed to recognise that it was just to risky for mages to cast, so they avoided it.

Yes your right on your second point, IF it gets an early kill, it looks bad, and IF the game is drawn out the dmg meter makes it look bad. but from a pure gameplay perspective, never has anyone cried about dk dmg, when hunter devo frost rogue and feral exist. Even aff locks, yeah dmg is high, so what, they have nothing else, cant heal, cant even get off a fear with pillers around, all they have is dmg, dont take what the spec does away from them, its lame, nothing can kill a good healer 1v1, why are we killing off dps before everyone gets full geared? lol.

I can see them reverting the nerf once there is zero representation in all brackets, which is on its way currently.

29

Well good luck with your protest. Im sure DK will still be plenty viable.

30

It’s already not viable, cant kill a healer 1v1, and again you diddnt post any facts. Stay feeble minded bro.

31

Cuz most nerf are about the average players. I don’t mean to be condescendant as Im pretty average at 1600’s.

I also play mostly mage and dev in pvp so UDK are my second worst enemy after hunter

That being said, I’ don’t think they deserved a nerf. They where tier A+ I’d say and have no real cheap move.

They are what a strong class should be IMO.

They also requier some skill to perform well.

But, an average DK could ruin the fun of an average random player so I guess thats why they got nerfed.

32

I was replying to babyidiot, most of your posts make sense.

In regards to skill level you can’t really request nerfs of buffs at mid ratings, the reaon for this is that most people are not playing specs correctly at those ratings to begin with, as such adjusting specs at those ratings essentially allows for bad gameplay to trump good gameplay, an example would be what if I cant kill a resto druid at 1600, so we nerf all resto druids, and then there is no resto druids that can get 2400, is this good or bad game design? Should no resto druid players EVER reach 2400, just becasue someone at 1600 cant line up his cc and dmg cooldowns? No.

An ave DK ruining the fun of another player doesnt make make sense, did they ruin it becasue the DK does dmg? Well everything does, and most do more, but I understand what your saying its hard to ‘outplay’ a good dk, well a 45% dmg nerf just makes the dk unplayable, it doesnt help being outplayed by him. If I have to slap you around for an extra 5 globals, trust me it wont matter.

33

15% nerf to your main damage ability is a massive nerf.

Look what happened to hpal after 15% buff to our main heal. C tier to S tier in 1 week.

Unholy dk needed nerf to 40 yard grip range and the teammate double ams cancer. Not their damage.

No. It’s probably not going to be good either unless theirs some secret tech op alternative build.

The only reason you play with an affliction warlock is damage and now their damage is way worse. Those games where you were barely beating bad jungle cleaves as an aff loc are now going to be auto losses.

So the thing about game balance is currently even pre nerf there are multiple melee better than unholy( rogue feral) and multiple ranged better than affliction(mm bm frost).

If the better specs received proportional nerfs then these changes wouldn’t be as impactful. Instead the better specs were either ignored(rogue), slapped on the wrist(hunter feral), or straight up buffed(mage).

34

This is probably what they’re doing.

im not sure exactly what you mean by pure gameplay perspective, but people definitely complain on here about DKs opening go.

this is true, but im okay with it. healers are currently bad targets, especially without dampening, but its not like nothing dies at all. DPS definitely dies, so the meta is just to kill dps and disrupt the healer. This is usually the meta anyway. the only difference is that tunnel zugging healers doesn’t work as well, which id argue just makes entire healing specs unplayable, causes degenerate matchups, and is insanely not fun for the healer.

35

wtf your a genius.

Yes, nerf 40 yard grip, or our coil cleave. Its passive fluff. And double ams, sure, if its breaking games, and it’s not just a 15% nerf, its another 15% of top of ALL our dots, it’s like giving paladin a 45% buff to the main heal, lol, insane.

I agree about the lock, it can’t spam cc due to pillers and movement, and it cant exactly heal, even single target dmg is average, and it HAS TO CAST, you can avoid alot by LOS or kicking.

Feral unholy, even now warrior due to catching up with gear is better, but like frost, war need to stick to target to do that dmg so its slightly rougher.

If blizz waited until everyone was fully geared in 2+weeks, THEN LOOKED AT DATA, they would see the sheer increase in versitility would decrease dmg overall, and they wont even need to gut unholy or aff. The dmg is fluff dmg, its always cleave and dots, single target where and when it matters is still outshined by evoker, feral, mage, hunter and rogue. The DEI hire in charge of class balance needs to play the game over 1500 rating and really think about what they want to achive here.

36

It’s 100% what they are doing, end game data is all the bean push’s care about, they make everything ‘cleave’ then are shocked that all dmg is doubled.

I mean that from pvp gameplay, when fighting a deathknight, even you as an experenced healer admit, ‘you just pop a defensive and it dies down’, thats correct, thats all it is, inital burst, then dies off into oblivion.

I to am ok that we cant kill a healer, cc healer, kill dps is more stratigic, and allows the healer to outplay and dps and the other dps to aid them, as well as the dps using cd’s and running from harm, vs TUNNEL THE HEALER ALL GAME BBY!

37

The main thing that stands out with DK is that it feels impossible to stop. Like you see a feral incarn and it can be majorly derailed with stuns, etc. DK has way better tools to maximize its uptime during the dmg window.

If the dk grips me in, strangulates, while i take random micro CCs, aoe stuns, etc, and my entire team is taking huge damage + whatever the other dps is doing, it can be pretty difficult to navigate. basically cant cast, and whatever 3 or 4 buttons i get to press better be the right ones.

btw, not saying specifically the above situation has to be nerfed or whatever. DKs have always been able to grip healers in and create pressure like this. just saying that it is legitimately powerful if well executed. I think id rather be holy than disc in this situation, but what do i know.

38

They also shotgunned BM Hunter damage as well but left MM damage untouched.

39

Well kind of but not really; lolcoil isn’t exactly used for its insane direct damage, it’s used to proc everything else.

However in saying that I think it’s dog water to nerf the only active part of the death knights toolkit and not bump down the passive junk

40

Hah, you are so hostile and quick to call people names during your childish tantrum over justifiable nerfs.

Touch grass kid. Hah