Lol? This is utter nonsense. The stat interaction didn’t even make SV overpowered. By the end of BRF BM was a lot stronger. So you’re saying that they gutted a core mechanic of the spec to fix a stat interaction that wasn’t even overpowered when the stat was slated for removal anyway? Are you listening to yourself?
Just stop with your pretend support of ranged weapon specs. You are only saying it to be diplomatic and it’s painfully obvious. The one time they removed a ranged weapon spec you supported it. That tells us all we need to know.
“Wanting ranged and melee on the same class for flexibility” is hyper-niche; especially now that Hunters can use ranged weapons in melee range. You’re just saying that sometimes you prefer to be a worse Hunter.
Incoherent opinion.
Well if we are just dumping dubious anecdotes into the thread like they mean anything, most people I talk to who play the class or used to are deeply upset by SV becoming melee. Many of them quit the class entirely over it. I even know someone who quit the game over it. Meanwhile opposition to focus is rare.
Well I’m sorry I’m so Trumpian that I’m not swayed by the compelling evidence-backed statement of “It isn’t because of melee”.
SV is unpopular because it’s melee. It’s common sense, for one: the core identity of the class is ranged and most people who pick the class pick it to play ranged, so there’s little overlap between the long-term playerbase of the class and SV’s playerbase. Blizzard themselves admits that they knew the spec would be niche and Hunters wouldn’t like it because they prefer to be ranged. Claiming SV’s unpopularity is for any reason, and in your case EVERY reason, other than being melee is delusional.
they just see the downward trend of active players (based on log data usually) of less players across the board and are deciding to blame specifically SV instead of anything that actually makes sense
You could look at warcraft logs over the years and compare. If you just want some quick glance data you have Babylonius google sheet for class and spec representation, tho it only covers WoD to start of SL. You can find a link to it on wowhead if you google for it. Overall Survival took a huge drop in % of players playing it as it went from range to melee. It was about 4% even when it was gutted at the end of WoD and it dropped to below 1% of logs and struggled to breach 1% for years.
There was no need to remove one from Hunters. This may come as a surprise, but there are more then 2 range weapon fantasies.
Says the person who refuses to accept the evidence put in their face. Survival has been the least popular spec since it was made melee in legion, with the exceptions of thew few times when it was brokenly OP, and even then it’s popularity wasn’t great. It’s been reworked every xpac since it became melee and yet nothing they do, other than making it broken for a tier makes more than 5% of hunters want to play it. People don’t want to play it because it’s melee, and there are better options to be melee with.
13 different melee fantasies currently. 2 different ranged weapon fantasies currently. Gee I wonder…
What’s ridiculous is trying to act like this sentence wasn’t complete nonsense in the context of the conversation. Melee have a bunch of different options for melee fantasies. Ranged weapon users in wow have 2. Used to be three, but Blizzard decided to remove one, and “don’t worry, those who like ranged survival can still play it in MM.” And then Legion turns out to be the WORST version of MM in the history of the game, because it turns out you can’t mash 2 different weapon fantasies together and make it work.
Because BM and MM are always swapping of which one is the most played by large amounts depending on which one is stronger.
Because Ret is/was overpowered, so all the meta chasers chased it.
It was unintended behavior and that’s why they removed it. It was very late in WoD for such a fix but it happened.
Ok.
You really are one dimensional. Maybe i would legit enjoy if they added more stuff like tinkers and/or dark rangers?
Yes I was happy when they reworked SV because it was new and refreshing, and believe it or not I did enjoy SV during the WotLK - WoD era.
Why are you specifying ranged weapon as a specific thing but lumping every melee together? Do you think two daggers and a single 2-handed sword hits the same fantasy?
It hasn’t been reworked since BfA.
Why are you lying?
No, BM is consistently played more. MM is currently much stronger than BM but there are many more players playing BM.
Hmmm, shocking. Melee supporter being disingenuous because they don’t have a point. Answer, there are only 2 specs in the entire game that use ranged weapons currently in any capacity, and those are MM and BM hunters. “But ma wands tho” is not an argument in the current context of this conversation. Also what is it? 9… 10 casters? Yeah, there are different types of casters and caster fantasies, but none of them use ranged weapons. None of the melee use ranged weapons. The only ranged weapon users are again, BM and MM hunters.
Why are you?
Except for most of Shadowlands MM was played more then BM. Riddle me that batman.
Link. Also, who cares what blizzard says. Look at what they have done to hunters.
Opinion.
I know people like you tend to confuse opinion and fact. The simple fact is the last iteration of ranged SV was a disaster. It was the single least played spec in that tier. If you want to play ranged hunter there are two specs for that. MM has a few ranged SV abilities. Gaining ranged survival back in the game brings absolutely nothing to a player base that has been largely ignored for years.
Pretending that melee is the culprit might work for you but it isn’t reality. Don’t let that stop you though. People like you never do.
nice rebuttal! please tell me how SV was reworked after BfA.
It was reworked in WoD to Legion, and Legion to BfA.
You deliberately didn’t answer my question and call me disingenuous. Why do 2 daggers fill the same fantasy as you as a big sword? why do the 2 bow uses get preferential treatment for you compared to the 2 dagger users or 2 glaive users?
I mean, they are, sure. I think that really only applies to your CE world first type of folks though yea? Are heroic guilds and teams that dabble in mythic like mine really that concerned with it? I know we aren’t. If someone pumps they pump and we bring them. If someone doesn’t pump but they are funny and good to be around, bring’em.
It is so freeing to unshackle yourself from what the top 1% are doing. There is no boss in this game currently that you can’t kill with 20 people standing in melee. Some are going to suck and be harder, but you can still do it.
The initial tick of Serpent Sting was absolutely not unintended behaviour. This statment makes all your “I loved SV back in Cata and MoP!” talk dubious to say the least.
I don’t believe you. You hide on an alt and you use manipulative language to try to sound diplomatic. More likely you’re just another Legion reroll pretending you have more investment in the class.
Yeah Hunters are mostly portrayed using ranged weapons, you start with a ranged weapon only at level 1, core utilities and abilities of the class use ranged weapons to the point where they need to give SV a pseudo-ranged weapon just to make it make sense, but apparently it’s just my opinion that ranged weapons are the central part of the class
You know it was the opinion of the Classic developers as well:
Yeah, look what Blizzard did to Hunters: they took away one of our specs.
Complaining about Blizzard neglecting Hunters yet defending melee Survival, the single biggest and most destructive result of Blizzard neglecting Hunters, is another incoherent opinion.
Yeah and how about all that time before they deliberately went out of their way to trash ranged Survival right before announcing melee SV?
MM is not even close to an adequate substitute to ranged SV. There’s nothing inherently wrong with MM’s identity, but it’s not the same thing. We want better exploration into ranged weapon archetypes, not “just cram everything into MM”. Hmm, sounds like an approach that’s largely ignorant of the Hunter class. Almost like melee SV is a product of the same developer neglect to Hunters you complain about…
There are two other ranged specs. There are melee weapons listed in their description.
Also did you just link a description of hunters from 20 years ago? LOL
No they didn’t. It is still there. You just don’t like it. Cry me a river.
Holy jesus get your tin foil hats out kids! Conspiracy Bepples is starting a pod cast.
One of the more ironic statements I’ve ever read. You need help.
that’s one of his favorite go-to’s. he likes to pretend a random page in a game manual from 2004 is a “gotcha!”. he also likes to bring up quantity of spec parses (but only in relation to SV) to try and prove his point and then avoid answering why BM has more players than MM if “ranged weapons are the focus of the class”.
