No that’s literally just Vespero.
6 Likes
And Ardenweald is the engine that keeps wild gods and nature spirits going.
1 Like
I miss BfA. Not the schizo storytelling and ambiguous motivations, but the world building, and the side characters, and the local flavor.
5 Likes
Shadowlands has a lot of world building and local flavor, if you’re Venthyr and do the Ember Court 
e.g.
1 Like
While I agree with most of what you said, to be fair, Legion seemed like the end of the Burning Legion as a comsic threat, so I could understand the story going all out with threats to end with a bang.
Yes… but I’m not invested in the Shadowlands. I feel like my characters have been yanked out of their world and asked to care about this one… because they have.
10 Likes
I mean ain’t that partially because Forsaken have gotten zero narrative progression
Even though you’re face to face with the guy ultimately responsible for your existence (Primus invented Necromancy)
And Lilian Voss’s dad is in the Maw with no Lilian Voss
and Calia has done zero
Etc.
23 Likes
Nor Worgen, nor dwarves. I mean, for me the game is really “World” of warcraft, not races of warcraft. Im more interested in the places, and the people who populate those places because of those places.
4 Likes
How long did it take to get the Revendreth set?
I literally only play to grind anima and just finished it this week and I bought the weapons for the Renown set + finished all my Ember Court upgrades
So more or less 3-4 months worth of daily anima grinding
luv dis gaim
probably 2 months if you do weekly Nathria like clockwork
Because it’s shallow and contrived. Worst of all, though, is that it’s dumping all over sometimes decade+ old story to connect it to the writers’ awful new Super Satan villain that nobody in the fandom seems to give a damn about.
Everything is being retconned or super, super twisted into being “because the Jailer” to try and give him importance because the plot made literally zero effort demonstrating why people should care about him in the first place. So rather than develop him on his own, they’re taking a bunch of iconic villains and storylines and now just saying they all were REALLY because of him all along.
It’s the worst kind of retconning. Retcons on their own are not inherently bad, but when its done to service a character that they’ve put no effort into developing into a real three dimension villain, it reads as very lazy. So now not only do we have the most boring villain, we are also having old story and characters ruined by changing their motivation to being “because of the Jailer all along.”
Also personally for me, Sylvanas is the worst character in the franchise and her continued role as the prime focus of the story is ruining the narrative.
What sucks is that there’s good stuff in Shadowlands. The problem is that it’s not the overarching story, but it’s the smaller stuff like certain parts of covenant campaigns. Characters like Pelagos or Lady Vashj are fantastic. Their arcs are great and Lady Vashj still FEELS like Lady Vashj (Unlike Kael’thas imo). The Bastion storyline and Kyrian covenant campaign overall is very well done. And the Winter Queen and Ardenweald stuff is great too. While I don’t think all 4 leveling storylines are good, all 4 covenant campaign stories are some of the best stuff they’ve done yet.
Unfortunately, as I’ve said, all of this is in service of an exceptionally boring new villain as well as Sylvanas, and their story being the focus is just…yikes.
If you dont want to read all of that, the most concise explanation I can give is:
The writers wanted to do the Lich King, Arthas, and Frostmourne again and because they couldn’t, and instead of coming up with something unique or clever, they literally just made the Lich King 2.0, Arthas 2.0, and Frostmourne 2.0. But without any build up or pay off to Arthas’ fall or the Lich King’s motivations
The story is just lazily told and stealing old stuff to retrofit into their new awful narrative.
11 Likes
This really grinds my gears. The current creators at Blizzard should be aware that they are custodians of this world and their job is to care for it, and help it grow. It doesnt matter what they want to write. It doesnt matter if Steve Aguilar’s art team is excited to make something “totally new” that isnt a troll. (As he said in the Preach and Bay talk with Ion Hazzikostas and Steve Aguilar video that can be seen on youtube). This is not their world.
Yes…yes. I know Blizzard owns the IP. But the current creative team isnt just writing their own story, they are exploiting the emotional investment of fans of someone else’s world to tell their story. Like Star Wars, you cannot write in a beloved world like that without taking the mindset that you are serving at the pleasure of the fans of that world… Filoni knows.
20 Likes
Honestly the one and only potential saving grace for all of this is the slim possibility that Zovaal’s being played as well, and the nathrezim have spent eons manipulating all of this stuff across creation for some unified sinister purpose of which Death is as much a pawn as the other five cosmic forces.
Because when it comes down to it, the dreadlords seem to be chugging along with the longstanding plans of their Master (and they only actually seem to call Denathrius that, not the Jailer) even after Zovaal has dismissed him as no longer necessary after the Castle Nathria raid. Suggesting their mission “never changed” because it was always theirs rather than the Jailers, and perhaps they’ve only worked with the Jailer because it suits their purposes and not because they’re earnestly on Team Jailer and invested specifically in what Zovaal is trying to accomplish.
It’s arguably part of the problem with the Jailer that he seems to be the only person actually invested in his specific (albeit thus far ambiguous) goals. Other than the seeming exception of a retconned Kel’thuzad, the Jailer’s allies are otherwise either enslaved Mawsworn minions or associates with personal agendas that just happen to align with helping him in his activities. This isn’t the Legion high command zealously committed to Sargeras’ mission, nor is it the Scourge’s intelligent members being true believers in the Lich King’s propagandist message of an unliving paradise. Or the Twilight’s Hammer maddened into thinking and believing anything their Old God masters tell them to believe. It’s one Big Bad with a personal ambition and his cadre of allies of convenience who’ve got their own, seemingly independent reasons for benefiting from their allegiance. It makes Zovaal seem isolated and empty as an antagonist, but at the same time it does at the very least plant seeds of intrigue for wondering what these other villains are actually after that has them hitching their own schemes and goals to facilitating his escape.
I have a hard time caring what Zovaal wants, but he does make me kind of wonder what Sylvanas, Helya, Mueh’zala and Denathrius are after by way of wondering why they each think helping Zovaal will get them what they personally want. He’s not very interesting, but there’s a sliver of interest to be had in the more interesting characters he’s surrounded himself with, if only to provide grounds for pondering why they think it’s worth being on his team.
It’s almost like his allies also know he’s just a big ol’ “Super Satan,” but they also respectively think that’s just the sort of blunt-force cosmic agent they need in their corner to finally get what they want. As if by having him be such a one-note antagonist, they’ve almost baked in a mechanism for finding out most of the expansion’s other villains are really just along for the ride and using him for their own ends.
5 Likes
What? Where? BFA is still a joke lol
11 Likes
I want whatever your taking bud, must be some good stuff if you think people are praising BFA. 
16 Likes
It is hard to notice something that is barely there. I have not noticed this phenomenon, but maybe it is there - in a smaller degree than you claim.
BfA wasn’t all bad, and had some widely praised aspects even when it was current. People liked BfA’s Zone design during BfA. All the zones on Kul Tiras and Zandalar were pretty cool, and had fans.
It was the all encompassing story after level cap that frustrated many - and the echoes of it still soured many to Shadowlands.
6 Likes
Its a clown car ride just to see how fast Sylvanas and Anduin slam the main story line into a brick wall.
We see it coming, we’re all just past frowning at this point.
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Remember that this clown car has giant monstertruck wheels that are shredding through whatever lore we used to love by retconning it.
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There’s a few parts of the Shadowlands lore I personally oppose. The lack of justice for the Night Elves is one. They set up the Night Warrior in BfA… only to take that away from Tyrande in Shadowlands without justice being done on Sylvanas. There’s no mention of what happening to Malfurion and we don’t see if the Night Elves reclaimed Ashenvale. So far Shadowlands hasn’t delivered the promised Night Elven resolution.
I could make a thread about Sylvanas, so I’ll keep it short. I find her overrated and overused, and her plot now is just Sylvanas fanboying/fangirling; retcon after recton to give her a redemption arc. To quote Ethriel’s amazing post;
I’m burned out on all these “subvert expectations” story arcs being shoehorned into Warcraft. To name a few. Illidan’s a bad guy in BC? No he’s actually a hero (and edgelord) in Legion and a good boy all along! The Horde is on the backfoot? Nope, they pull a major victory out of thin air and burn Teldrassil? The AU Draenei and Yrel are going to get restitution for the Iron Horde? Nope! They’ll forgive the Iron Horde… then we’ll villain bat the AU Draenei! Jailer’s a new cosmic bad guy and Sargeras 2.0? Nope, he had a point… BUT he went too far.
The incessant retcons to justify the story are another major problem. From the Helm and Frostmourne being retconned into the Jailer’s tools to the nature of Elune and the Shadowlands itself, the lore is being mutilated more than a Game of Thrones character just to tell this new story.
9 Likes
Draenei had it coming. They are alien colonizers who deserve to be wiped out for bringing the legion to Draenor. I have no symphathy for them. I hope they all get killed.
3 Likes