Serious question. Why are rogues happy about slice and dice returning? You guy really love maintenance buffs? There is a reason it was removed in the first place…
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Eh there’s very little reason most rogue abilities were removed outside of other classes being pruned.
To your question…depends. Outlaw I’m not happy because it’s the same thing. I hit roll the bones, I either get a lucky high or a depressing low. If they all had relative power for the most part with slight alterations between them it wouldnt be so bad. But when its didnt get x buff so it sucks… Well that sucks.
Sub- honestly only pvped with sub. Pretty neutral.
Assassination- Hell yes. Why? Cause it’s too stale feeling like I’m playing the same spec from 2009 with toxic blade. Hyperbole i know but in all seriousness it fits with the bleed n poisons as well as increases some depth in pve. Been playing rogue since vanilla so yeah it’s not hard or anything. But I had it for many years, specs have been stripped too far so I’d rather have depth added to the spec versus all of it in external power.
Pretty much it. Negative, neutral, positive for me. Although to be fair if Outlaw only had SnD itd be a positive from me. That or redesigned bones.
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Outlaw doesn’t function as it should without SND and poisons and it needs its mastery reworked.
Sub is supposed to be the spec that specializes with finishers and yet had a lack of variety of finishers. SND when re-integrated into Sub will make it play a lot smoother. Poisons returning for Sub is also huge.
Assassination is a little different as it is probably the spec that has a lot going for it right now on live. But SND when re-worked properly can also be a benefit for the spec if Blizz figures out a way to not slow down the spec too much.
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Yeah, I don’t exactly understand the “thrill” of having to refresh another buff every 20 seconds. But for some reason, people are into that.
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You know why. Several people have pointed out why having SnD back is amazing, and why most of us are excited about it.
I’m sure Res is getting tired of constantly repeating himself to people who won’t listen.
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I played Combat/Outlaw for 14 years (only switched mains this expansion.) My input:
- SND provides a reliable output for a finisher that provides a buff
- RTB is unreliable in its damage output due to the variance in strength of buffs provided
- Playstyle from RTB buffs changes depending on buffs provided. While some of these buffs actually do provide fun playstyle, a bad streak of buffs both gives low damage output and creates a situation where rerolling ruins the fun. (Hence the term ReRoll The Bones…
) - Due to the different playstyles from the different buffs, RtB regularly creates unfavorable situations while soloing content (eg, world/daily quests)
- Pre-Legion, Combat was a strike-from-the-shadows-and-obliterate-with-swords (or occasionally maces, fist weapons, and eventually, axes). RtB was part of the change from the warrior ninja type to the boring pirate theme.
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There are numerous reasons why, and I suspect you are one of those that are opposed posting on one of the below rogues to agree with your self.
Its been discussed at length, of the numerous reasons why SnD is awesome simply comes down to its a good passive way to increase your DPS while having control over seemingly mundane things like poison proc rates, weapon procs, and so on that are % based RNG.
Poisons are important in PVP, and increasing the proc rate in PVP via slice and dice is a point of skill, also slice increases your auto attack speed by %, so this increases the damage you are dealing at that time, and this is an added component of DPS while bursting in PVP regardless of the spec.
I can continue to elaborate further, but I do feel that the search function would reward you a wealth of knowledge.
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This dude is drinking the cool aid for sure. You really love them passive maintenance buffs I guess? Everything you said could just be added passive. Slice and dice is just pure button bloat. I guess people just enjoy the nostalgia of having shotty spells from classic.
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Removing abilities and simplifying classes went badly, guessing you don’t understand where the rogue class comes from. Slice on the surface is so subtle and so simple, but it does a lot, it has use outside of just what we tell you. It’s also an excellent way to balance a class because it allows blizzard to turn up the dps without creating massive issues in pvp.
There is a lot more than that, I don’t need to drink the koolade, I brew the stuff.
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I actually like RtB ( liked it way better during Legion, IMO) but getting both and and rtb is good to me, dunno.
My thoughts below come from a SUB point of view:
First of all, Slice & Dice is more than just a maintenance buff, being unable to see it for more just means that you are either ignorant (that isn’t a shot, it just means you are uninformed) or you play from one perspective of the game.
For starters, Slice & Dice has multiple mechanics behind it.
It provides Energy Regen from its connection to Shadow Techniques passive, as well as a higher chance to proc poisons - Both of these are nice because:
- Cheap Shot got nerfed to have a higher energy cost, making any additional energy income more valuable, especially considering Cheap Shot is a vital ability, especially in PVP.
- Our poison proc chance got nerfed, in addition, Wound Poison is becoming a stacking effect, meaning it takes additional procs to get its former full value.
All of this means that Slice & Dice rewards good players, and these mechanics make it more than just a “maintenance” buff.
Planning ahead, forethought, & preemption; Having abilities that ALLOW THE PLAYER TO SET THEMSELVES UP FOR SUCCESS is a DEFINING feature of Sub Rogue & is exactly what Slice & Dice, & former abilities we used to have do for our spec.
Take these two examples:
-
Your in a raid, your Slice & Dice wears off in 3 seconds, but the boss is doing a mechanic that doesn’t allow you to attack in 9 seconds, do you refresh Slice & Dice with your 5 points now, or wait?
-
Your in an arena, your fighting MLD (Mage, Lock, Rdruid); A comp that has heavy CC. Part of the skill, part of the design of being a SUB Rogue was having the knowledge & the forethought to find appropriate timeslots with everything that is going on in the arena to apply a PRE-Slice, & a PRE-Rupture to your target that way when you did your burst, your burst was netted with higher results.
Basically the point is, Sub has always been one of those specs that required the Rogue to think ahead & set up, & having abilities like Slice & Dice compliments that exact playstyle because its a finisher that does more than just damage, its a finisher with multiple mechanics that rewards our energy, poisons, & overall damage.
Types of finishers like Slice & Dice are something Rogue, & ESPECIALLY Sub, is in DESPERATE need of when you think of what little finishers we have in BFA… (Only Nightblade & Eviscerate, unless you count CC then Kidney Shot too)
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Yep
you have no idea
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Who is Res and why would his opinion matter? If it’s that poster above, does his opinion count for anything at all? He hasn’t even cleared heroic… lol.
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For PVE, you’re pretty much always going to be forced into a maintenance finisher. There’s never really been a time where all you did was spam Eviscerate. So, it really comes down to what’s the better maintenance finisher. I’d definitely rather have to have Slice and Dice active over having to debuff the target with Nightblade/Rupture to get a % damage increase. Having to have a debuff up really limits your target swapping capabilities. Slice and Dice will be more freeing.
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Because he like many of us are PvP rogues who know a lot more about how the class works than even the top 10% of raiders.
Fact is pvp is far more complex and requires more skill because it’s not just a scripted dance you can memorize, but instead you are fighting another player who can do some very unpredictable and interesting stuff.
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“Who is Vincerus and why would his opinion matter? If it’s that poster above, does his opinion count for anything at all? He hasn’t even timed a 15 Kings… lol.”
Understand how dumb that sounds now? There’s more to the game than mythic raiding, or PvP, or keystones, so getting a perspective from all of those viewpoints and more in aggregate will allow you to have a better overall understanding of the game. That’s why Res’ opinion is important.
WRT/Slice and Dice, it’s going to (at the moment) affect Shadow Techniques, meaning more energy regen and more combo point generation, in addition to a greater volume of poison applications. It’s a maintenance buff, yes, but it’s one that makes things feel smoother.
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I only hop into Raids to get specific items that are good for PvP, I have not seriously raided since MoP.
However, I have 3 friends who happen to be Rogues that are amazing at PvE / push very far in Mythic Nyalotha, etc, and I ask for their opinions to gather perspectives from a PvE pov, and all 3 have shown favor for Slice & Dice rather than distaste.
As for my experience, I’ve achieved 10 Gladiator titles & been 2800 in arena.
Exactly this.
He asked why people are happy about Slice & Dice, I gave him an answer from a fairly high-rated PVP perspective while also trying to incorporate some PvE perspective from my friends feedback, and his response is “Who is Res and why does his opinion matter”
Sounds more like Vincerus doesn’t want other people’s opinions, just simply is looking for people who only agree with him.
Point is, Sub, and frankly just Rogue in general has always had multiple finishers that did several things, this was a key-feature in what made Rogue FUN, in BFA, we literally only have TWO finishers as Sub, both of which only do damage.
Having Slice & Dice is LONG overdue & very welcomed. It will make Sub’s rotation feel better, while also adding a bit of complexity & planning back to Sub, a spec that is REVOLVED around that. What is there to dislike?
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I think SnD is boring gameplay. The devs have done several things to give Outlaw rogues other options that do just fine if the player does not want to gamble with RtB.
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Goes deeper than that. This is also about reclaiming our class. I want my class back and I’m gonna fight for every single component with vigor.
This is every bit as important as recovering baseline smoke bomb, gouge, backstab and dismantle.
Well have a look at what we have lost, the list is very long, too long to just type up.
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Because not only is it a really good ability, it is also a very iconic and core ability for rogues.
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