This is one of the most annoying thing Blizzard keeps doing. You invest all this time playing a character then all of a sudden Blizzard decides to nerf your favorite character to the ground. This makes you feel like you’ve wasted all you time and drives people to quit.
Blizz have learned and changed a lot in DF but one thing they cannot get through their thick heads. Stop Nerfing things!! Just make other things Better to balance! Stop waiting peoples time!
32 Likes
Huh? Can you cite the nerf?
Gotta go down on wowhead a bit, but before I can find it, I can say that MM damage is nerfed by 3% flat, and double tap is going to be removed, its going to be replaced by “tactical reload”, which reduces cooldowns of aimed shot and rapid fire by 10%.
1 Like
Thus is the cycle of life…in WoW.
You see certain class doing “good” and a player having fun playing another class so you decide to level that class thus paying monthly sub fees or instant boost. Once maxed out interest starts to fade along with that monthly sub fee. In comes hot fixes,patches and updates now your class is garbage while this other looks super fun so you resub/reinvest time lvln/gearing another.
WoW has been out for ages,plenty enough time to balance the numbers.It’s not rocket science,it’s a cash grab .
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Double tap removal is an oof
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Yup. If it was OP in PvP just tune it. Like 99% of everything classes can do if OP can just be tuned, no need to remove. I play BM but I’m not dumb, DT was very good for MM.
Lots of stuff that seems “wow this is broken” just needs a couple of knobs tuned. Easy as. From the most OP to the worst meme abilities. Tiny bumps.
Speaking as a programmer who has worked on teams that have to manage and balance in games, even SP games if a certain character or ability pulled too far ahead or too far behind we’d do weekly tuning passes and look at the numbers what people were picking. We didn’t have to overhaul anything unless it needed serious attention. How an MMO doesn’t do small weekly tweaks to tuning is beyond me. Like we put in base multipliers and broad multipliers for just this very thing. Tune per action, weapon, kit to bumping a character or class up or down across the board if we were happy with the spread across the toolkit. Like it’s literally a number you can tweak with weekly maintenance. How some classes go so long being over or underpowered is wild, to me.
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I know we are all going in a circle with the topic but the more I play the more I understand that I am barely viable as an arena pvp teammate as it is. Outside of my burst cooldowns I am more often than not a burden to my healer. It requires a ton of careful work to run and survive in between since 9/10 I’m the target. Nerf the burst & what’s left for MM?
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if it was op in pvp nerf it , yea but the problem is its not THAT powerful ! hunter imo is in mid to bottom tier against other classes that do way more dmg / has more mobility etc. hunter have no new tools to keep the gap vs hard melee like WW , DH , War or DK. if hunter need something its not a nerf. its a buff. yea double tap is strong but if you remove it what do we got ? a small burst of dmg out of arcane shot each 2 min lol ? anyone telling hunter is in a good spot right now is delusional.
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I went through Leg, BFA, and SL thinking things were going to get better. SL was more or less close, but now everything started over. It was Sisyphean. I won’t say it was a waste of time, but I’m personally tired of it now. That’s why a STEP BACK is a farther step in the right direction. Three expansions and Blizzard never really got Hunter quite right until maybe last patch.
No, sorry-not-sorry we probably don’t have another six years of Retail to get it right, let alone six more years I’d give it. Even jackals get old.
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Double tap is hardly powerful even in pvp honestly. Its CD doesn’t help either. Marks is and has been in shambles for several expacs now. Seems they have zero idea how to design the spec
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People saying Double Tap wasn’t that powerful are either misinformed or being disingenuous. Maybe it wasn’t very good for you, but those that knew how to take advantage of it were globaling people.
Pretty much every class with a one-shot mechanic was nerfed. Double Tap is essentially the last of those abilities to be targeted - mostly because it’s not as strong as those other one-shot mechanics.
The problem is Hunters have an innate lack of defensives and self-sustain, so removing Double Tap is taking away the one advantage MM had in PvP. In PvE, Tactical Reload is objectively more DPS than Double Tap though.
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Imo double tap wasnt that powerful. Even if it was, you could just nerf it in pvp.
What’s powerful is surging shots + streamline talents increasing rapid fire damage by 55% in total.
Our damage in pvp relies too much on rapid fire, because its easier to get off than aimed shots. In battlegrounds you can cast aimed shots easier, but in an arena setting its hell.
If you’re gonna remove double tap, at least we should get something in return. We are squishy, self healing and kiting is almost nonexistent.
If tactical reload ALSO reduced the cast time of aimed shot and rapid fire by 10%ish, I’d be kinda happy. It isnt the burst double trap granted us, but at least we could get more aimed shots off.
I would let surging shots stay the way it is, but I’d change streamline to increase aimed shot’s dmg by 15% instead of rapid fire.
That way the damage is more evened out between abilities, meaning less burst by a single ability, but more sustain.
Edit: I miss exotic ammuitions from WOD.
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I think the majority of people on this forum don’t understand how bad double tap is for hunter. Devs can’t buff aimed shot because then people just one shot with double tap. A lot of spells like double tap and rapid-fire, which were first introduced in bfa just ruined hunter and two expansions later and we’re still using these two terrible spells. I think all this shade thrown at blizzard before seeing what they want to do with the spec by a bunch of people that don’t understand hunter is funny. To all the people saying mm will die in pvp, HA HA HA
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This is a reasonable take. Double Tap hamstrings balance for the reasons you mentioned. It also prevents buffs for things like Legacy of the Windrunner’s which, given the amount of point you need to put in it, should be really awesome.
I think, generally, the tree should be rearranged so the left side is big chonky hits, mid is AoE oriented, and right would be fast, pew pew pew kinda stuff. As it is now, outside of the definitely AoE lower left, talents are all over the place.
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Yes and this is why those abilities were buffed after they removed Double Tap.
Oh, wait, the entire spec was nerfed on top of Double Tap’s removal.
Be less gullible.
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Yeah, I get it. I’m not saying the way they’re going about this is the right way - just that Double Tap prevents meaningful change in it’s current iteration. Changing two things at once is a level of rocket surgery we can’t expect from this company.
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Don’t mind bepples, he’s still learning how keybinds work in game.
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I don’t mind Bepples. He is the Bernie Sanders of the Hunter’s forum; there’s no question what his stance is because he’s been saying the same thing since forever. I think he’s very genuine, and respect his point of view whether I agree with him or not. His consistency is offensive to some, though. Especially that farm implement guy.
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Ok. I am in no way critisizing Blizzards work nor employees, but in what realm do you, as a game developer think this was a good decision? MM as it sits, is a solid C, even B tier class. B!!! B as in pretty balanced as a whole. There are a hand full of other classes that will still run hunters over. So to yank the one ability that is profoundly crucial to ourdamage toolkit. Whats your plans for DH’s? There’s a reason you see a lot of them at higher ratings not to mention the one pulling a 2800 is SS. Im not asking for DH, or any other class to be nerfed. Do they need at lease some tuning? Absolutely. But you target hunters and essentially removed one of our legs… i’d be a little embarrassed to say the least. And as a veteran of thr game playing since BC, I have considered unsubbing.
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Even I have felt the sting of DTap last patch(9.2) when a Marks doubled RFire on me. Granted she outgeared me so it happened faster than I could recover near the SW embassy. I missed not having it since I had to roll with L&L, though in BFA I used it a lot.
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