You give yourself way too much credit for someone who blatantly ignores certain pieces of lore in favour of others.
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Genuine question, are you just trying to be an dick? I have no dog in this fight, but being this antagonistic and framing anyone who disagrees with you as a stuttering idiotic echo chamber just shows poor sport and makes me question why youâre even on a forum where disagreements over lore are constant, if you canât deal with disagreements.
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You lying about the source of mountain king is not âignoring lore.â
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Elemental
Educate yourself.
Genuine question, but have you not read any of the previous posts? Iâm not the first one to the dick rodeo. I am, however, curiously the first one to be called out at it.
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I didnât lie, I said itâs a possibility. You donât get to put words in peopleâs mouths when you canât comprehend statements.
Your random link is pointless too.
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Iâm calling you out because while theyâve âattackedâ you, itâs been on your assessment of lore from what Iâve seen, while youâre making personal attacks centered on them being seemingly lesser than you.
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I explained why it wasnât, and you kept stating that it was.
One person flat out told me I had brain rot, buddy.
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No, I didnât keep stating. Stop confusing two different things and stop making up absolute garbage in some ridiculous attempt to gain the upper hand in an argument.
Mountain king =|= Magni
Is this not included in what I said about criticizing about your assessment of lore?
Beyond that, I donât really support that either. Doesnât change what you said though, so my critique stands regardless.
Your earlier quote had specifically do with Magni, but alright.
Mountain King still isnât related to the elemental spirits. The Dwarves were made as tools to move earth by the Titan who locked the Elemental Spirits away in the Elemental Planes. The Earthen were essentially drills. Technology made to move and shape earth. They did not commune with elemental spirits and ask spirits to move. They forced earth to move.
No?
As does mine.
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So were Vrykul, but they learned. They became Human and Kul Tirans.
You canât prove that Earthen didnât have such a connection to the Elements then you can any other races. In fact, Earthen probably had the GREATEST connection to them then any other race because they probably knew the most about them.
But even so, the fact that DWARVES HAVE SHAMANS prove that Dwarves CAN and DO respect the Elements, so your original argument is rendered moot and invalid.
You Lost. Get over it.
Learned what? To continue serving titanic creations?
Thatâs less learning and more uncontrolled flesh cursed evolution.
The Forge was also able to draw on the life essence of Azeroth and create sentient life. It was here that the various titan-forged were born, such as the stone troggs, earthen, mechagnomes, and the vrykul.[3]
^ a b World of Warcraft: Chronicle Volume 1, pg. 60
Citation.
Citation.
They learned to expand beyond their created purpose.
Please explain how the Curse of Flesh granted races the connection to the Elements.
Wow, you can quote irrelevant loreâŚ
Now try to post something that IS relevant to the topic at hand.
They literally had the power to channel Elemental magic themselves. Whether or not they drew that power with the help of the Spirits is irrelevant.
All that mattered is that they could channel it naturally BECAUSE of their design.
They were literally made from the Earth itself.
Theyâre closer to being Elementals themselves then any other race.
Both Earthen and Stone Troggs are both have Geomaster/Geomancer classes as seen in Deepholme (oddly enough, Earthen Champions can use Paladin spells too, which brings up even more questions.)
Point being, Earthen were at least âProto-Shamans,â able to call upon the elements but not being able to channel their full powers.
No, Iâm not saying those quests arenât canon. They are canon.
You seem to be either misunderstanding or misrepresenting what they mean. They arenât the solid proof of your point about the scope of the factionsâ presence in Nazjatar that you think they are. The very fact that theyâre PvP-only quests means theyâre directly and explicitly targeted at other players, not at some imaginary armies of Alliance and Horde troops that were amassed in Nazjatar.
This is a discussion forum, not Twitter. Perhaps try addressing peopleâs points cogently like a grownup rather than parsing sentence chunks out of context and vomiting out âcitationâ over and over. Itâs bad-faith arguing to go into your points by making it appear that youâre ignoring the bulk of whatâs been said and just targeting incomplete bits and pieces of other postersâ replies that rub you the wrong way as some sort of childish âgotcha.â Thatâs Trolling 101 and makes you seem like someone whose positions are fundamentally not to be taken seriously.
Edit: That said, your second point here may be right. Fair enough. Agree to disagree, then.
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It didnât. You stated it did. Youâve provided no sources for it being true. There are no Vrykul/Humans shamans of which I am aware.
Itâs obscenely relevant. You lied and stated that Earthen were created with elemental spirits. They were not. They were created using the Forge of Wills which specifically tapped Azerothâs lifeforce.
Yes it is, because thatâs specifically how shamans work.
This debate is if dwarves have origins as shamanic powers. Iâm routinely proving that is not the case.
Azerothâs lifeforce.
But not earth elementals/earth spirits.
Thatâs because theyâre titan creations. Odyn, also, has light powers. Remember, they tapped Azeroth, the Titan, herself to create these demiraces.
Iâve been asking you all thread to prove this claim. Youâve been wholly unable the entire thread. But you keep making this claim anyway.
Arround 11:20 the earthen says: I am one with the earth. I am of it, and It of me.
Youâre right that theyâre of titanic origin, but since the earth element is the source material that they are made from, it seems that they have a deep connection with the element of earth by design.
Since Wildhammers have learned shamanism directly from the elements due to their lifestyle, a natural elemental connection seems plausible.
There are kultiran shamans. Though they donât even know what a shaman is, some just learn to summon and talk to the elements naturally, though it seems to be due to their almost religious reverence for the sea.
He also states,
âAzeroth has granted you strength!â
Azeroth is where the power comes from.
The dwarves, including Magni, regularly refer to Azeroth as âThe Earth.â
Has Blizzard commented on when the Wildhammers learned shamanism?
I spaced them. Thanks!
Yeah, theyâre definitely closer to an actual shaman than the dark irons.
As an aside, the dwarf armor cutscene is so cool. Iâm mad because I know Blizzard wonât put that much effort into the orc one. Theyâve certainly not played up anything positive about orcish origins in⌠well, ever.
Not to change the subject but how does the Horde having the Hammer of khazâgoroth change the calculus of sieging or razing Ironforge?
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OofâŚits like attacking Russia in late fall into summer. Didnât work out for H!tler or Napoleon.
The Horde hasnât been shown to have it. For all we know, Hogger walked into the Tomb of Sargeras and picked up the Hammer of Khazâgaroth
Ah. So youâre just flat out lying when you lose a point.
No, I never claimed any such thing. You claiming I did is YOU lying. Again.
First, no it isnât. Shamans CAN and DO commune with the Elemental Spirits.
But they Also commune with the Spirits of the Dead and have a reverence for heritage and their Ancestors (Earthen are shown to do both.)
Likewise, there are Shamans who do one but not the other.
On the other hand, there are also non-shamans who can Commune with, Summons and Bind Elementals as well.
It isnât a rigid definition that you can include or exclude at your say-so.
Where? Because you have yet to do that.
Try posting them in the Thread instead of in your imagination.
There is no question that Dwarves have had Shamans for at LEAST 300 years.
No. Literal Rock and Earth. They are literally Crafted from the core compounds.
All Earthen were created from the Rocks in the vacinity of their respected zones. We even dig up Enchanted Earth for them in Northrend that they use to heal themselves.
The Forge was used to bring the Stone to Life.
Thatâs not an argument. Where they came from doesnât mean they canât be shamans.
So, her Spirit then?
There is also Highlord Demitrian, who is an Eastern Kingdom Human who became a Shaman⌠not a very good one but still.
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