Why all the hate for LFG/LFR, and where does it come from?

Community General Discussion
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I get it. People jump into a LFR Uldir and cause you to wipe tons of times on MOTHER because they don’t cross properly. They stand in stuff and fail to do mechanics properly.

But why all the hate? If anything, would it not be better to HAVE LFR, giving a place for lesser skilled players to do content vs being picked up by a premade Normal/Heroic and wiping you there, where mechanics matter all the more? LFR gives casual players a chance to both learn basic mechanics, and experience end game content (i.e. lore), while staying out of the way of more hardcore players.

Many higher level people have never done LFR, choosing to jump right into normal/Heroic when Uldir was released. Having LFR or not never bothered them. Isn’t this supposed to be a case of if you don’t like it, don’t do it? People seem to loathe it, yet those people can always be found INSIDE a LFR complaining about it. People complain that it makes the game easier. Is that a bad thing? Are people being forced to use Dungeon finder when they level?

This was most specifically using Uldir LFR as an example, but I have seen numerous complains about regular dungeon finder as well as simple LFG for various things. I’m just trying to figure out where all the hate for it comes from.

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Just jealousy, nothing more. Back in the day, having a guild/network of friends and the open timeslots, and just having the ability to enter the raid was considered “prestigious”. The same deal with dungeons on a smaller scale. They used to be able to stand out in Ironforge or Orgrimmar and have the “casual peasant scum” fawn over them and their epic gears.

Now that that’s not the case anymore, and they’re no longer getting the attention they used to get, they’re upset about it.

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“I have this large piece of sprinkle covered double fudge frosting cake.”

“I have a small slice of plain cake.”

“Now my sprinkle covered fudge frosting cake does not taste as good…”

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The LFR hate started the day it was introduced.

It is old and hackneyed and useless.

The people who had this mindset arent here anymore, save for a few that persist in mounting an equine, taking a long wooden pole to a stone structure with a rotating wooden vane and yelling “Have at thee, dragon”.

Its tedious…and utterly self defeating.

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Yup, I was there too. I still remember the big “I will never do Normal+ raiding again” thread. xD

Nothing’s changed at all.

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Greed and vanity. Same deal with war forge and titan forging. Good when it happens to them. Bad when it happens to someone else.

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Its the idea that only raiders get “purples”, and no one else deserves them

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The two big ones…

1: It has had a negative impact on server communities.

2: The fights are too dumbed down to be interesting.

That’s it. Despite what that guy who replied “YOU’RE ALL JUST JEALOUS OF OUR MEDIOCRITY” might think. What a joke.

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I think the problem is that LFR lowers the floor of the game. The expectations.

Yes, there’s some people whom without LFR they would never play the game. There’s also people who would play normal but play LFR simply because they are fine with whatever is the easiest experience. (I’d call these loreseekers who aren’t neccesarily bad/lazy/lowOnTime/what have you. )

Say for them they are your “true normal” players. They go to LFR simply because it’s the path of least resistance, and if it weren’t there, they’d just go do normal. They aren’t seeking a challenge, but they don’t care about difficulty. They just want to do the content, and will do it however it’s presented to them.

The other issue is the people who are below the “true normal” players when they seep into other parts of the content. Players who want absolutely everything to be on LFD/R, people who want content nerfed to deal with the atmosphere of LFD/R, people who just want to eat the content as quickly as possible and move on, without much real care for it.

But then there’s also the issue that some players because of the low floor of LFR (And because you will always win eventually) are of an entirely other population. Players who by my honest opinion should not be playing the game. People who refuse to learn the content, people who afk through the content, people who make the content more difficult for no good reason, people who are the reason Blizzard has to simplify content to begin with.

I feel all people are capable of beating any content in the game if they actually want to do it. But there’s a subset of players who bring everyone else down because they’re quite frankly dead weight. And LFR caters specifically to that crowd. The game doesn’t need raids where half the mechanics…instead of being nerfed, are flatout removed. The game doesn’t need a mechanic that purposely tries to outgear you for the content if you suck.

It needs it so that people who are completely happy with weighing their groups down with anvils stop bringing all the content down with them.

But basically: LFR fosters a bad atmosphere for the game, where you can essentially see everything without doing anything, in a multiplayer game, while playing with other people.

Yes, some bosses pose more challenge than others, but between Determination and constant shuffling of groups, even the least determined of players will eventually clear. And well…I don’t think games should work that way. There’s youtube if you really care that little about actually playing the game.

I dunno, maybe i’m strawmanning. But I feel like i’ve nothing but poor experiences in LFR, and the problem is that stuff inherently isn’t contained in LFR.

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1: It has had a negative impact on server communities.

Proof please.

2: The fights are too dumbed down to be interesting.

Then dont do it.

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people who just want to eat the content as quickly as possible and move on, without much real care for it.

You just described every guild back in Cata that cleared the raids on normal and then whined they had nothing to do.

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This

I feel all people are capable of beating any content in the game if they actually want to do it.

does not equate to this

But there’s a subset of players who bring everyone else down because they’re quite frankly dead weight

and

Players who by my honest opinion should not be playing the game

Never go into game design.

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Of course it does. Everyone is capable, but is everyone trying to?

You don’t know the phrases “Know your audience” or “you can’t please everyone”?

Pretty sure those are pretty inherent to literally life itself.

And yes, you can stay out of game design too.

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Of course it does. Everyone is capable, but is everyone trying to?

No. Why would they? Everyone plays for their own reasons.

You don’t know the phrases “Know your audience” or “you can’t please everyone”?

I do know them, I have also been gaming and in the games arena for decades. Started back in the 80’s.

Pretty sure those are pretty inherent to literally life itself.

Pretty sure also that who plays and who doesnt isnt an issue you need to worry about.

And yes, you can stay out of game design too.

Looks at notes from alpha and beta testing since 1985

If you say so…:nerd_face:

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I think most of it comes from the nature of random queuing systems in general. If you know you’re never going to play with a certain person ever again (or at least, if you don’t believe this to be the case), then there isn’t as much of an impetus to be a decent person, and that behavior sort of bleeds out into the rest of the game.

That’s the theory, anyway. No data to support it one way or the other.

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Aside from numerous accounts from other players and former devs? You can look it up yourself.

Never go into game design.

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If we’re going to discuss LFR, then it’s going to be something i’ll feel the need to talk about.

Trust me, i’m not going into LFRs or Orgimmar and saying “You shouldn’t be playing this game”. I have my beliefs and I will say them, but I am not an a** about it. People can have whatever content Blizzard gives them and I’ll do no more than complain. I will expect the same courtesy from others.

If you don’t want to hear it, it’s as simple as not asking for my opinion on LFR.

Same, same.

Oh? What games have you designed?

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Never go into game design.

A little late for that, see my prev post.:nerd_face::rofl:

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I like those features, but I’m also a “casual”. I get that people want better things than those who do not fight as hard, or play as hard, but they’re still getting better gear by doing normal+, right?

There have only been a handful of times I’ve seen agitated players in LFG/LFR, but I guess I’ve been pretty lucky to get groups that perform well together.

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Right over your head, ayyyy.

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