The Forsaken got to do some important stuff just, very tangentially related to Arthas. Certainly gave him a mean cough but some folks kinda got caught in the crossfire.
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Yes, but Sylvanas blackmails the Blood Elves into going to Northrend, and then the Blood Elves don’t really do anything but hang out with the Kirin Tor and Argents.
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Funny how a thread like this always turns into defending sylvanas’s actions and blizzards desicions.
mfw I think Sylvanas getting Kerriganed would be beyond stupid but realize a large amount of the most mean spirited, empathy devoid posters are Sylvanas haters that would throw a hissy fit if it happened 
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Forsaken got uber shafted, hope ya’ll get something positive soon.
It does baffle me with the lack of disregard for past lore in their portrayal this expansion.
Because decisions can really cripple a story for folks espcially with blatant lack of care to previously developed lore.
It really raises the question, why get invested if things you like are just gonna get retconned into things you dont like.
Like damn the forsaken have had it bad this expansion and hardly anyone has said a word about it.
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Yup, the Forsaken got uber shafted this expansion. Granted, I am one of those that defined my expectations of their society and Sylvie’s temperament more off of EoN than most … but it doesn’t mean I wanted them brought to such a dire low point. I was sort of hoping that there was a salvageable character in Nathanos, and that he would also get used and betrayed by her … allowing him to side with his people and leaving them with someone of actual note; but trust Danuser to always prioritize his disturbing fanboyness over his body pillow Waifu instead.
All Undead players should be frustrated because they have to soon answer to their King aka King Terenas in Shadowlands for every wrong thing they have done. Spoiler: He won’t be happy with the undead. No undead will get his blessing. It’s sad but true.
But he will bless me because I have more respect for him than all undead combined.
They threw the first punch in a point of non-aggression.
You’ve made good headway by the time you bump into her, I’m sure you can go the rest of the way. It’s not as if she has the power to withdraw someone from Helheim there and she’s not going to squander the future of the Forsaken to make a demand for your release- a demand that probably wouldn’t even be granted.
She’s been ruthless, pragmatic and unrelenting, but ‘Darth Adolph Stalin’, she was not. We only see this drastic 180 of Sylvanas in BtS/BFA.
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You could call War of Thorns or even Moustache Man and Gulag Guy “ruthless, pragmatic and unrelenting.”
You are making precisely 0 point here. There’s a term for being “ruthless, pragmatic and unrelenting”: evil.
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I suppose what I should have said, to simply it, is that she is not a squeaky clean pillar of morality, but she was by no means the character we see in BFA/BtS, nor was it ever her objective to purge all life in the world. Not even during the Cataclysm, as you so specifically underline.
She was written with more tact than that. BFA/BtS Sylvanas is not true to her original character.
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You are wrong here as you attempt to be pithy.
Someone who is evil would always do the “wrong” thing whether or not it was a useful thing for them to do. That’s what Sylvanas has become in BfA.
Someone who is pragmatic would always follow whatever course of action was best for them, regardless of whether or not it was “right” or “wrong”.
There is a reason we use different words to describe different things.
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Not accurate to say that’s not true to her character. It has always been an aspect to her character that is shown to be secondary and just beneath the surface. All throughout her development, you can see her slowly growing the revile the living and holding nothing but contempt for it.
Not saying her actions are the logical conclusion of those thoughts that plagued her mind, but she did have them.
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I honestly think the greater problem in arguing this whole issue, e.g. whether or not something was “consistent” to her character (or many other characters), is that the writing team has this very annoying habit of foreshadowing multiple possible outcomes within the story, and then going backwards to scrub out the ones they didn’t use after they make their decision.
You can see they’re already starting to make multiple retcons regarding Sylvanas’ past actions.
You can see they’re also giving themselves room to whack Tyrande with the villain bat if they decide they want to later.
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What definition of “evil” is this, a 3 year old’s? Evil is selfish in nature.
Oh, I see. Another person not worth arguing with.
You go to the ad hominems even faster than Katiera does.
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I know you’re playing a belf, but do stop looking in the mirror.
You don’t even know what an ad hominem is. See, this
Jellex is a fool, therefore 2+2=4.
is an ad hom. This
Jellex is a fool, and 2+2=4
is not an ad hom. It’s an insult. Your definition of “evil” was the most childish definition I have ever seen that isn’t extensively using the words “bad” and “mean.” I don’t think any discussion on the nature of behavior with you would be productive.
Struck a nerve, did I?
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This seems to be the case here as well, where they’re back scrubbing to say that Sylvanas did play the Alliance and the Horde at the Broken Shore all along and Genn was right (not his actions, just hid accusations).
An evil person can do the right things if it benefits them in the long run and still intend to be overall evil in the end. Evil people are not bound to always do the wrong thing. That was Sylvanas’ whole play at the Broken Shore: Pretend to be good so she could become Warchief as part of her overall plan with the Jailer.
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My overall issue with this particular piece of evidence is that it reeks heavily of the retcon as I described above. I don’t think there was literally any hint of this being the play at the time of the Broken Shore, and Blizzard was presenting Sylvanas as heroic. Then again, as I said before, one of the problems the writing team has is they are very poor in their use of foreshadowing.
Re: evil, I don’t disagree that it’s possible to be “evil and pragmatic” in the sense that you describe, but I would argue that often in fantasy media, which we are partaking of right now, one of the things that ultimately topples the evil entity is that they cannot resist doing evil for evil’s sake, which up until recently was not Sylvanas.
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Varimarthras told us about Sylvanas’ plans with the Jailer:
- So, your Alliance still endures. Longer than I expected, though she has already planted the seeds of its downfall. She is patient, that one.
When your thrones run red with betrayal … when your holy places burn and the shattered mask hangs above your hearth… only then you will know. And it will be too late.
It matters not. You are blind to the true darkness closing in around you.
So, she found me at last. Sent her underlings to finish the job.
Tell me, when she seized your throne of hides and bones, was your allegiance forced? No… I’d wager you surrendered it willingly… or were convinced you did.
It matters not. You are blind to the darkness in your midst.
The bold text covering what she had already done, and the underlined foreshadowing her burning Teldrassil. People just wanted to dismiss it as if Dreadlords could never speak the truth.