Why A Forsaken Player Is Frustrated

Kinda didn’t leave us with a lot of options. SI:7 ninjas are in the Undercity cutting down fleeing Forsaken civilains and the general air of the invasion is ‘Let’s purge the Forsaken filth that desecrates this jewel of human history’.

Leaving it up would allow the humans a fortified capitol from which to conduct operations on remaining Forsaken territories in the middle of a world war. It’s like the only thing Slyvanas does that makes objective sense.

And besides the point if Blizz had nuked Teldrassil but kept Lordaeron up and just handed it back to the Horde unblemished then I’d actually believe the writers hate Nelf fans. Teldeassil burned so a Horde city had to go and the Forsaken drew the short straw.

Guess it could’ve been Silvermoon it’s already been mostly in ruin for over a decade now but that would,

A. Necessitate updating BC content and fat chance on that and

B. Infuriate the vast majority of WoW’s elf fan base and they couldn’t do that. There’d be a platoon of people with spock ears baying for blood at Blizzcon.

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Well your the one complaining about it being blown up. Now you have to rebuild just like the nelves have too perfectly balanced just like all things should

Which I would be up for. Hence me describing at length my sincere desire to see the extent of Forsaken architecture expanded upon which a rebuilt Lordaeron would necessitate.

But do you really think Lordaeron or Teldrassil is getting rebuilt anytime soon? Shadowlands I think probably shouldn’t have much to do with Azeroth proper. So that’s going to be at least till 2021 until we even get the chance at seeing anything rebuilt.

And I’m really worried like most of Cata content this is just never going to be addressed. It’ll just be like this possibly forever now with maybe some off screen stuff saying the Nelves/Forsaken all moved elsewhere and are totally fine now let’s not worry about it ever again.

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That’s just how the game is tho. Personally I am happy to be away from Azeroth this world drained me from caring I got they are rebuilding I don’t need them to finish right now and outside of heritage armor quest yeah we probably won’t see what happens to Azeroth till next xpac

Thanks for the head’s up. I legitimately may’ve never noticed on my own. Since you go through Dazar’Alor to get in and out of Nazjatar and can do the mission table stuff from your phone I have had no reason to be at the Banshee’s Wail.

Outside a quick chat with Tattersail to get to Kul’Tiras at least. I’m looking at Nathanos standing there now speaking as if 8.2.5 never happened so I’m unsure why they’d think I’d guess fresh updated content would be found there.

Yeah, that still bugs the hell out of me.

Just like how, as a new level 100, you report to “King” Anduin to report to the Broken Shore… It’s like “GAH, what?”

Like, couldn’t they just phase out who you talk to based on what stage you’re at?

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Well having now completed that quest color me still disappointed.

Our first canonical meeting with Calia is spying on a meeting she’s having with Derek and Jania.

Now, imagine if Blizz had bothered to do what I suggested, and this is the moment it’s revealed this strange undead who’s been helping the Forsaken is Calia Menethil. You’d still get a lot of ‘Who’s?’ because unless you played Priest in Legion or read the supplemental lore this is likely the first time you’re hearing of her but hopefully Menethil rings a bell. It’d be a payoff for something set up, ya know like what stories are supposed to do.

Instead though it’s ‘Who is this extraordinarily overdressed lady and why did I just fly out here to listen to her talk to Derek about the power of positive thinking?’.

And why do I care if Voss’s concious is weighed down? That’s nice Lily but I sprang the guy from bondage and had to murder fellow Forsaken to do it. I was only obliged to not murder the unarmed, cowering deckhands (though the options there). Which I of course didnt do. Even if leaving witnesses while exposing my character’s face and committing high treason seems really, really dumb.

So frankly I think DMoore owes Benedikt one fel of a thank you. It’d be the perfect moment to give Forsaken rebel players just one line of unique dialogue noting how it must of been difficult killing your own misled countrymen. Doubt we’ll get it but it’d be the last time to do it before we wave goodbye to this failure of story.

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Forgive me if I don’t really buy into Forsaken having taking issue with Killing Forsaken, when a Horde player playing through Dragonblight literally has a quest (given by a Forsaken) to Kill unarmed, caged Forsaken for no other reason then because they got captured.

Totally would believe that Sylvannas probably had those Forsaken that Blaine spared executed too.

I mean, we COULD of rescued the captured but no. We executed them instead.

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Alright

A. I am a Forsaken player telling you I had a problem with it so, kinda torpedoes your point there.

B. I’ve no recollection of that quest whatsoever. I imagine it’d have annoyed me if I ever did it. So I either I did and forgot, or never did and would have never known till now.

Do you not see how that’s notably different from a story focused quest you are obliged to do? Wherein killing Forsaken soldiers is explicitly framed as the morally correct option?

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Actually, I was refering more with Forsaken in game, not so much the players.
Voss likely wouldn’t of taken issue with you doing it and likely would do it her self in your position.

It was part of the Wrathgate questline, so unless you skipped that whole chapter, you were sort of obliged to do it. By the way, I also took great offense at it, even playing my BE because I couldn’t understand why my BE could so freely do it, even if the Forsaken seamed like it wasn’t anything. Ever since Rolling a Horde years ago, I’ve been faced with doing “morally questionable” acts “for the greater good” that no one else seamed to take issue with.

But it wasn’t. It fact, it was framed as a trying moral conundrum that Blaine (and by Surrogate, the player) had to be faced with.
You can argue that it didn’t do a very good job of portraying that, and that’s sort of fair but it wasn’t framed as “Morally Correct.”

I’m wondering where it’s framed as being a moral conundrum. From the start if you want to aid Saurfang you’ll have to kill a bunch of Forsaken soldiers. Do you want to help Baine? Kill a bunch of Forsaken soldiers. Want to help Thrall? Kill a bunch of Forsaken soldiers.

I was weirdly happy to kill Goblin and Belf loyalists. You of course had to kill Forsaken along with them but hey my favorites aren’t being displayed as the only worthless canon fodder here so that’s refreshing.

I know what I’ve had liked wouldn’t have been feasible. Or at least would’ve caused an uproar. But it really broke my immersion to have Benedikt, a hero of the Forsaken at one point wearing my dark blue Forsaken Cleric mog complete with icon of torment cape, mowing down Forsaken soldiers.

As is demonstrated evidently the Forsaken were ready to turn on Windrunner, mother of their country and basically God Queen, the instant she proved disloyal to the Horde. Like, my guy’s revolt didnt do anything like that? Did they all just presume he was the world’s deepest cover double agent?

And again I get a third option just for Forsaken players where we convince the Forsaken soldiers to go away and plant some seeds of doubt wouldn’t have been feasible. That’s why all I’m asking for is one line of dialogue to the effect of ‘Boy that must’ve really sucked’.

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Would of been interesting if the dialog with Blaine was a little different for Forsaken players.

But I’m pretty sure the intent of the message was that you were playing as a someone choosing a side between the Horde and Sylvannas, and as a loyal Horde, you chose helping to dethrone a dictator, even if that meant technically committing treason. No different then Orc players felt when they sided with Voljin against Gorrash.

Well it’s a touch different as siding with Garrosh was never an option. With Windrunner though there was doubt. Especially if you’re a Forsaken and you’re killing other Forsaken the entire time.

Of course that doubt was pointless. Yes she turns out to be utterly indifferent to everyone and at best pity’s the Forsaken. And her definition of pity is as interesting as her one of morally gray. I mean I thought that was suppose to inspire mercy or kindness. Can’t say I’ve felt both pity and the desire to hit someone with ranged ballistic weapons simultaneously but I don’t have the brilliant strategic mind of Windrunner apparently.

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You’re confusing pity with sympathy.
Pity alone doesn’t invoke feelings of mercy or kindness. Only contempt and a sense of superiority.
One needs to be capable of feeling Empathy for the poor and unfortunate, with Sylvannas hasn’t been capable of in a long time.

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Yep. if sylvanas could feel Empathy her sister would be with her in undercity with her kids and if undead had a issue with a living sister, she would tell them to screw themselves.

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That sounds like one hell of an inconsistency if the Alliance doesn’t hold Lordaeron.

I’ve looked everywhere but can’t find head nor hair of the reference. If you could send it my way, I’d like to forward this to the PTR forum.

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I’m wondering when they occupied exactly. Tirisfal is completely abandoned. Save for Lord Calston’s estate and the Bulwark, weirdly, so the only actual presence still there is Forsaken.

Granted that’s maybe an oversight. Outside mission table stuff the northern kingdoms go largely unaddressed and I don’t know if we’re ever getting a firm answer on who won what with those.

They’ll probably just say that the Alliance won everything in an interview somewhere down the line, since the Horde were the evil bad guys and couldn’t have won anything this time.

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After WotLK and her deal with the Val’kyr, Sylvanas was inevitably going to become a villain because her motivation stopped being about the continued survival of her people but rather her own at any cost. And even then, it could be argued she never actually saw them as anything more than a means to an end even before WotLK given her dialogue in Edge of Night.

The warning signs were already there, but the Horde playerbase kept chalking it up to her being ‘gritty.’ Indeed, the more she seemed to step over the line, the more the Horde playerbase cheered it as ‘strong leadership.’

Heck, most of the Horde playerbase cheered her actions all the way up to Saurfang challenging her to Mak’gora at the gates of Orgrimmar and there are still those even now who are trying to rationalize what she has become.

Why? Personally, I think it’s because she made the Horde playerbase feel powerful which lead to them ignoring the obvious direction her character was taking and continually rationalizing away her more questionable actions even when it was obviously not in the best interests of the Horde.

I think they knew full well where her future could lead, but they were only too happy to turn a blind eye to it when they thought her actions were helping them WIN.

I remember reading the forums after the Burning of Teldrassil and saw just how many Horde players were downright gleeful about their rationalizations thereof. They didn’t care what she did as long as they thought it was benefitting them, they only became outraged when her actions and theirs had tangibly negative consequences applied to them.

I understand that many Forsaken like being morally grey or even bad and that it’s one of the big draws for some to the faction, but in a game where good and evil is more clearly defined, when people go too far or cross the line one too many times there will inevitably be consequences for it.

You can’t repeatedly commit evil acts and then be mad when you’re treated as evil. You can’t have your cake and eat it, there has to be a balance unless Blizzard decided to go the route of creating a third faction which is unrepentantly evil like with Warhammer.

If anything, her downfall is probably the best thing to ever happen to the Forsaken. Not only do they finally have the opportunity to decide their future for themselves, they’ve learned an important lesson on the dangers of blind loyalty that they will hopefully carry forward into the future.

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I can only wish the other races of the game (besides Orcs) can get a taste of this kind of story!

Imagine that following the Gilnean Heritage quest, Princess Tess has declared that the Curse of the Worgen will not be the future of her people. She attempts to cure her father with an alchemical solution, which poisons and kills him! Unwilling to admit fault, she gathers the Non-Worgen Gilneans and flees, claiming like Lord Godfrey before her, that the filthy mutts she’s leaving behind were destroying all she held dear.

This could possibly be the greatest thing to happen to the Worgen! They would be reduced to nothing, and have to find their own place in Azeroth.

If you take everything a playable race has from it, that makes it more interesting!

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