I think they’re two separate situations but not entirely unrelated.
Bwonsamdi was never meant to be so powerful but as his power grew, he started monopolizing more and more power. Now, one of the reasons why he was able to gain so much power was because the Shadowlands are in such disarray. The Dead aren’t going where they’re suppose to be going, either because Bwonsamdi is diverting them on his end or someone on the otherside is.
Eitherway, you see in Nazmir the results.
Well, Bwonsamdi was never really a “nice guy” anyway. The Trolls know what kind of being he is but they still worship him as a Loa anyway. But I don’t see him anymore “Evil” then the Elemental Lords, whose Morality compass seams to be 4th dimensional. We need not have to Fight Bwonsamdi as an actual Villain if taking out the Jailer succeeds in the same objective. For all we know, Bwonsamdi wants out of the arrangement for his own benefit.
And we’re not technically “saving them from their own religion” if the current system isn’t their original religion. We’re saving their Religion from someone or something that has seized control of it.
I might not bring anything to uphold you well thought and thorought post about why a Forsaken player would be disheartened with the current narrative path the race has taken as of lately, but I wanted at least to bring some solace. I’m sorry this thread got derailed as fast as it has. It could have brought a nice discussion on why us, Forsaken players, feel we’ve been wronged, even amidst all the flak we take in here. Unfortunately, this very thread is the proof why we can’t have any sort of that discussion in here. Lo and behold the strain of people who came in here, avoiding to engage in the discussion, dismissing our critics of the narrative of the race with “lulz, you rolled the evil race suck it up”. This festering pool has shown me that no one cares about the Forsakens. Not the Alliance players, not our friendly Horde players, not in the slightest, and certainly not the current writing team.
Once again Benedikt, I’m sorry for your thread and I wished it had turned out otherwise.
Join us Benedikt. Together we can loathe the Blizzard writers, and someday tear down the walls of their infernal dojo, and drag them into the open to see the fires they have started.
Honestly I’d kind of gone on some miniature versions of this rant before and just wanted to get it out coherently in an appropriate spot. I’m not really upset things got derailed that’s just sorta part and parcel to the forums.
What does confuse me though is the sort of players who at least act like one racial fantasy somehow ruins theirs. This is not unique to the Forsaken. I saw people losing it because of the Belves back when and time being a flat circle I’m just in time to see people looking at Vulpera as the thing that will somehow ruin the Horde for them.
When, for me at least, I love how eclectic the Horde is. The races don’t have a lot in common outside their mutual need for survival in the world. I’ve 5 Forsaken but I also have one toon for all the other races of the Horde plus a Zandalari. I like that I can have my Vegas magician Goblin con mage along with my colors of the wind Tauren Druid. Imagining how they’d react differently to events is really the only replay value BFA kinda has. Trying to sand down their edges to make their racial fantasies seem more in line would just serve to make for a less interesting game.
Well forsaken don’t fit with the horde right now it has to do with thier actions this past 15 years and every time I see forsaken players talk they refuse to even change a little bit for there own faction some seem to think that the fact that they didn’t follow Sylvanas to shadowlands should be enough to redeem them in the eyes of everyone
Being villainous I don’t mind so much. But villains who’ve the nuance of Cobra Commander is where you lose me. Like did Lockjaw have a reason for torching Kul Tiran civilains? Some burning hatred for humans or was he just a not very nice man because Windy said to be? This is basically the Loyalist faction’s motivation in BFA;
And eh, I’m like a couple of Korrak’s away from getting 7 toons to max level I’m in way to deep to jump ship now. I am hopeful for SL as it seems back to formula with a BBEG to focus on. I think we’ve established to our satisfaction that nobody wants the current creative teams unique definition of moral grayness. So let’s keep this all real simple. There’s a real mean god level baddie named ths Jailor who looks like Santa with a phylactery. Works for me.
Honestly if you actually picked the Forsaken in 2004 and thought they weren’t villainous when the very first intro says they were only using the Horde for their own ends, I don’t know what to tell you. Maybe you should go play Final Fantasy then.
Bwonsamdi working for the Jailer wouldn’t make sense with the information we have. Most likely it was the Jailer who stole Vol’jin’s soul, yet Bwonsamdi is the one who sent us off to figure out where Vol’jin went and who took him.
This would mean Bwonsamdi was actively working against the Jailer’s interests. He’s also expressed disdain for over-killing, people keeping souls from him, and disrupting the balance of life and death. He is a very forward thinking, long term planning sort of entity. Wiping out all life on Azeroth is a short term fool’s game.
Bwonsamdi is a shady character who is definitely morally unscrupulous, but he doesn’t fit into the “minion of the ultimate evil” mold. If for no other reason than allying with the Jailer is counter-productive to Bwonsamdi’s business of dealing in souls. If everyone on Azeroth dies he can’t get new souls, after all. That puts a finite cap on how much power he can amass.
Unlikely. That would mean Vol’jinn would be in The Maw, but we know he isn’t from a combination of a few assumptions. Vol’jin is on The Other Side, as it was mentioned during the Questline where you visit Bwonsamdi, The Lich King and Eyir with Vol’jin’s ghost. I think this is reinforced in Talanji’s coronation day, where his ghost is seen bowing to her as she gave her speech, and watching from afar when she meets with Sylvanas.
Either he is hiding from Bwonsamdi, or Bwonsamdi is hiding him from the Jailer. Though, The Other Side is a 5-man in the next expansion. So I think that is where Bwonsamdi’s loyalties will be revealed. Neither would surprise me, if Bwondamdi is working for the Jailer, or if he is double agenting.
The reason Vol’jin isn’t in the Maw is because someone else pulled him away from the Jailer’s grasp. There were two entities playing with his soul. One that caused his death and cut him off from the loa and a second player that brought Vol’jin’s spirit back. “The hand of valor” as Eyir referred to it.
The fact that Bwonsamdi doesn’t know where Vol’jin’s soul is and that he couldn’t answer Vol’jin’s calls for aid suggest Bwonsamdi had no idea who either party were, hence sending you on a mission to figure out what happened to him.
Or he is lying, which I think is more likely than the truth at this point. This is why I mostly think he is a Jailer puppet. I think he specifically doesn’t like Sylvanas because she, a mere mortal, is contending with Bwonsamdi for the Jailer’s favor. I think people put trust in the character because he is cool, ignoring that Blizzard is not one for nuanced story telling, and what seems to be an obvious tell, often is.
While not super explicit, I think Bwonsamdi being right there, at the place of Rastakhan’s death, and his attitude toward Talanji, defiantly implies foul play in Rasta’s death.
Though, the implication that he is harboring Vol’jin’s soul in this moment is why I am open to the idea that Bwonsamdi intends to betray the Jailer at some point.
