Who's Worse Baine or Saurfang?

Baine transgressions:

  • Allowed the Quillboar to run roughshod all over the Tauren, while his only suggestion was to negotiate.
  • Declared TJ a legitimate military target, which his people were quickly shuffled to their deaths. .
  • After TJ, he attempted to help the Alliance defeat the Horde at Theramore, his people were included in that army
  • He defended Garrosh at his trail.
  • More recently, he sent a piece of his body to Anduin
  • Recovered Derek Proudmoore for his friends in the Alliance, killing loyal Horde soldiers along the way.

Saurfang transgression:

  • Dishonorable blow and refusal to kill Malfurion
  • Tried to commit suicide multiple times
  • When summoned by the Warchief of the Horde he killed Horde soldiers to escape
  • Poured his heart out to Anduin
  • Chose to abandon the Horde when given the opportunity to escape Stormwind
  • Pulled punches to spare Anduin so Anduin can stop Sylvanas for him

Did I miss anything from either of these two?

For me its Baine, I don’t think there is nothing worst than pussyfooting around while your people are being slaughtered.

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I’d say you forgot Sylvanas, but the list of reasons of why she is the worst is so long there is not enough collective memory on earth to contain the list of her crimes.

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You know full well people are going to debate you on the listed transgressions rather than answer the prompt.

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You’re worst than Sylvanas at killing hope : (

Edit:

ikr Sylvanas farts are even evil.

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Im sorry man, but it’s true. I don’t wanna tell you how to make your thread, but you gotta make the options fair. Why would people choose between characters unless they absolutely hated both.

If not Sylvanas, add Nathanos or something, and let’s make it an interesting discussion.

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If you’re twisting my arm and i can’t say that they’re both better than the person in charge of the horde…

Baine is worse. I feel like he secretly wishes his daddy had made friends with Jaina before he met Thrall, that way he’d have joined the alliance instead.

Not that I disagree. But still. Baine is the bigger traitor to the horde.

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It should be pointed out, though, that I truly believe both baine and saurfang both have the hordes best interests at heart here.

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I dislike them both for various reasons, and judging from this forum and other media outlets others have that same sentiment. I’m not sure what you mean by this not being fair.

I think Baine has sucked for a very long time, Saurfang not so much.

Really?

If you’re going to blame Baine for accepting the job he was asked to do for the trial to proceed, you should at least blame Saurfang for testifying that Garrosh deserved a chance to redeem himself.

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Definitely Baine. The whole negotiations crap after Dazar’alor was idiotic.

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The way he’s portrayed sucks, but its because they don’t know how to write him. I see what they’re going for. He’s supposed to be the stoic, powerful dissenting voice to the crazy that is sylvanas.

The problem is he comes off as a whiny b**** who will definitely complain, but not do anything about the things he complains about. Well, until releasing mr. proudmoore anyway. I guess thats why i don’t hate him. I think of him how they want to portray him, not how hes actually portrayed.

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The OP is ignorant and inaccurate in his depictions, but being pressed for time, I will explain that later in detail.

But for now - it’s hard to say who is worse, because both of them are so good. Both are actually complex characters with multifaceted and competing values (loyalty to tribe vs loyalty to principles, for example).

They actually have a relatable sense of morality to people living in developed nations in 2019. They aren’t racists. They don’t judge individuals by whatever collectives they could be viewed under (race, tribe, etc), they judge them by their own merits and have a sense of an innate value of life be you human, orc, elf, or troll. They are warriors, but recognize that war is a terrible event that should be avoided if possible, not encouraged. Which makes sense for people living in a time of near-constant destruction and loss of life.

The main issue is the lack of presentation that explores these characters in depth ( and in-game), which paves the way for memes, strawmans, and cartoonizing of Baine and Saurfang.

At least they are both much better than the shallow Godwin’s Law incarnate, known as Sylvanas Windrunner, who is evil simply because its the nature of her curse.

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You’re right, I forget that Saurfang defended him as well.

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The answer is Sylvanas.

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Much as I support both, given the choice I’d say Saurfang has the worse negative transgressions. He simply refused to act prior to Anduin’s intervention a la Lost Honor (I.e. bad writing), while Baine has now actively resisted Sylvanas’ use of Derek with force

Huh? Saurfang killed Horde soldiers way before Baine.

Baine’s biggest flaw is that he’s one of the Horde leaders who was primarily fleshed out by Christie Golden.

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Worse in what context? Not sure if you mean as a leader or as a person.

He only did so after the events of Lost Honor, reinvigorated by the words of an Alliance leader. I’ll never forgive Blizzard for doing the old orc so dirty as to require the words of “Good Boney Boi” Anduin to get off his *** and put up resistance against Sylvanas. At least Baine saw the Derek stuff and went “Yeah, no” without Alliance intervention

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For me it’s between which i dislike worse. Baine who is incompetent, somewhat treasonous without good reason, and in some cases makes absolutely no sense. And then there’s Sylvanas, who is outright blatantly evil, and also doesn’t make sense in anything she does.

So i’d say Saurfang > Baine > Sylvanas, because Baine has the slight edge over Sylvanas for not being garrosh 2.0. But i still wish we could retcon Cairne dying and replace Baine with him.

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