To be fair, he didn’t “Go to the Alliance”. He turned what was painted as a really sketchy, stupid plan even at the time into a safety net in case things got worse. And yes, even then the Derek plan was stupid. He wasn’t going to take down Kul Tiras, at best he might have taken down a Proudmoore or two and in the process ensured the Alliance was invested in a War of Extermination against the Horde. By essentially silencing any peace-voices left.
The guy just dropped off Derek, then went back to face his punishment. He didn’t preplan with the Alliance, nor ask for anything in response. And since her plan was meant to escalate the conflict again to result in as many dead on both sides as possible … he may have very well saved the Horde there. And its not because “Anduin is always right”, its because her plan was shifty garbage from the offset and it needed to be undermined.
He just as everyone else knew that the Horde was low on resources and not prepared to go to war again, especially not with Azeroth in its current state. A battle over Azerite was one thing and I dont think he knew about that, she allowed the Tauren to go to Silithus to heal the wound; a full scale invasion is a totally different matter.
Altering Malfurion to the plan would have stopped the Sentinels from leaving. The horde wouldn’t have gotten a fraction of the way into Ashenvale that they did had the Sentinels been there. Why do you think they needed them gone? No invasion, no genocide. No genocide, no Blood War. Now yes Sylvanas probably would have hatched another plan, assuming she could or had any more horde support but she needed that war.
Not liking the Warchiefs plan isn’t an excuse to go to the Alliance.
No, he wouldn’t take Kul’tiras by himself. Killing the Proudmoores would be a step towards taking Kul’tiras out of the war for the Alliance
He covered his tracks. He had no intention of facing his punishment.
Baine wanted revenge because Sylvanas made him break up with Anduin, because he was a bad influence. Just like Saurfang, he absolutely wanted the Horde to lose, except that while Saurfang wanted “his horde” back, Baine wanted to go back to being able to see his boyfriend again.
You’re kidding? You do get that all Derek would have amounted to was “maybe” taking out a Proudmoore or two, and then antagonizing the entire Alliance into wanting to eradicate the Horde? During a period of the war where the Alliance was “weeks away from winning, and advancing on all fronts”. Hell, thats all she really did the entire War. Prioritize tactics that would heighten and prolongue tensions as long as possible, to create as large a death-toll on both sides as possible. Even the AR’s recruitment was a part of this … as sad as that makes me.
Baine getting rid of that stick of dynamite was a good thing. Baine turning him into an Olive Branch turned out to be an ever better thing. He also asked for no rewards from it. Just dropped the corpse off and ran. The only issue I really had with what he did there, was that like with the rest of the Horde roster he wasn’t allowed to do something like it with Teldrassil. For plot convenience.
That’s your speculation, and I disagree. Also, I’m not sure why killing the Proudmoores would make the Alliance want to eradicate the Horde… unless an assassination attempt is solid justification for eradication… in which case War of Thorns is justified, so I don’t think the Alliance wants to go there.
It’s less that it would make the Alliance want to, and more that a good chunk of the Alliance was inclined to do that anyways, and Jaina was one of the members of the Alliance notable for being moderate with regards to the Horde. Killing off a person who is a major hero to the Alliance at large, and one of the largest proponents for peace, is not going to do anything to persuade the Alliance that making peace with the Horde is a good option.
Turning a dead relative of the leader of Kul Tiras into a weapon to kill their own family member would without question amplify the Hawk’s of the Alliance, and silence what little was left of the Doves. It would have also garaunteed that Jaina would have been reasserted onto that “eradicate the Horde” side of the fence if she wasn’t the one that was killed; but rather it was her mother and brother (the far easier targets). If she survived and they died … we’re dead.
It … was … a … terrible … plan. Unless Derek (someone Jaina clearly was going to attack on sight without Baine being present) somehow got all 3 of them, it would have only ended in a few relatively meaningless lives and a massive re-escalation of the War. Which is what she wanted. The Derek plan was in no way designed to actually help the Horde win the War, but merely re-inflame the conflict and ramp up that dual-faction death toll again.
I was finished with Baine after his short story were he worked toward giving the enemy who had been slaughtering his people exactly what they wanted opposed to totem justice.
There’s a time to sympathize and then there’s a time to crack some skulls.
Unquestioningly following the Warchief even when they’ve completely gone off the deep end is a boring and frustrating plot. I know. I experienced it until like 8.2.
I had no motivation to do anything that pointed me at the Alliance because my own faction was, to the point of it becoming comical, obviously the greater evil and arguably a bigger personal threat to my character.
As for red vrs blue, didn’t he warn blue about Theramore, which is exactly what Garrosh wanted him to do, which logically killed more of his own people?
Didn’t he mail a piece of his body to the King of Stormwind? I mean he has never mailed a piece of his body to anyone in the Horde lmao!
I disagree, but I don’t think that’s important. Baine says he did what he did because “honor”. Not because he thought it was a bad plan, or that it wouldn’t bring victory. In fact, if he thought it was a bad plan, and didn’t bring that up to Sylvanas, I dislike him even more.
Baine was playing to lose. He didn’t want Derek to kill his boyfriends auntie, and that’s pretty much it.
He wanted to kill a lot of Horde in the process, though. Couldn’t help himself, killing Horde, getting them killed, and apologizing to their killers is his deepest passion.
My favorite part is when he has you kill the command crew for the key to Derek’s holding cell, and then he’s like “oh, good, I don’t have to bend the bars now”.
I dont remember any Horde leader who came to his aid when he lost his city. I’d also point out Anduin gave him a dwarven heirloom to help him retake said city. What has any Horde leader ever given him?
This has ALWAYS been a tauren trait. Hell, they would even move if it mean they didnt have to fight the centaurs. I’d also point out it wasnt the fault of the Quilboar the Cataclysm destroyed their water supply.
He tried to return a favor to a person who once helped him. Regardless of the consequences of it all. Again said person(Jaina) helped take back his city while the rest of the Horde did nothing about Magatha sans some independent Horde forces helping his cause!
Him not knowing it was all Garrosh’s plan is not a point against him. He didnt even know about the Mana bomb until it was too late. No one could have predicted how far gone Garrosh was at the time.
Killing a soilder on the field of battle is one thing, the assassination of a leader is a rallying cry. Sylvanas’ plan for the Proudmoore’s wound have accomplished nothing but causing the Alliance to push to close out the war. They were already winning by a mile. At that point even Anduin would have been fine with unleashing the most vicious of assaults. Remember this is after they killed thousands of innocents in Teldrassil.
If anything the assassination attempt and the War of Thorns justifies the eradication.
