The gear doesn’t matter line refers to her belief that the current system is okay for gearing. She prefers templates because bgs were close because gear mattered less and skill should be what matters in PvP.
I disagree with her on the first part but definitely agree with her on the last bit. Hate templates but it’s better than this mess.
I get what you’re saying man but RPGs are usually solo player games for a reason. You start off as this weak pathetic guy and end up as the world’s savior. It’s all pve and all solo.
If you look at PvP games on the other hand they completely remove disparity between players. Even league of legends had a rune system where a veteran player could min/max there pages and eek out a small advantage over newbs. They removed that. If PvP is to last it needs to be about competition and skill not who gets to play infinitely more (with more time you’ll be better and win anyways).
Tldr: PvP should be about skill man… The gear progression should be a pve thing.
It’s more your neck level and access to essences now . 400 ilevel with 50 neck level will get you stomped .
It’s lasted this long though and only really started hurting when they implemented templates and scaling. You didn’t get the massive “pvp gearing is bad and not fun” threads back then. You ran through honor gear, then worked on your conquest gear and finished your character before the season was over.
Like it or not, pvp was “healthier” before we had templates and scaling.
2 Likes
Not when it comes to Bgs. Templates helped in that area and made Bgs less of a landslide. Maybe it was boring for your character but when it came to Bgs there was far less disparity.
2 Likes
Did it hurt that much in legion? I don’t think it hurt anymore than wod did.
I think we took the biggest hits from mop->wod because of the prune and legion->bfa because of RNG gearing and no vendors. That plus pve gear being king and therefore skill mattered less.
I don’t think PvP suffered due to scaling or templates at all. Pruning and RNG had way more detrimental effects.
It’s not about PVP, it’s about player engagement, hours logged in. When design decisions were made other issues were more important than PVP.
I guess I look at things differently. I enjoy PVP in WOW so I just adapt to what the game gives me. If I didn’t enjoy it I would move on to something else. Cliché coming-Life is too short to spend time doing something you don’t enjoy.
This issue is being talked about now because many players are coming back to the game in the middle of the expansion. It’s hard to compete, it’s hard to compete in a Random BG team when many are just starting out gearing and learning. If the PVP gearing system was better people would still complain.
Put some time into getting better gear, play your character better, play the objectives and hopefully you’ll win.
I won’t deny pruning/class design as probably the biggest culprit. But I know several that came back for legion to only be turned away when they put an enchant or gem on their gear and it not change anything.
I spent forever convincing them to return to BFA to watch them quit again because of the lack of pvp gear progression vs what we had in the past. It doesn’t matter if you agree with their mentality on progression in pvp but it’s the fact that they quit wow because of the lack of pvp progression. From the looks of my friends list of the ones who played a lot pre legion, it’s literally a ghost town.
We had a span in Legion where the games were legitimately close like Juga said. People still fought for wins. Now it’s rarely the case you get a close game. People leave in droves at the first sign of a loss. I think this is because honor is pointless and people didn’t fully realize that at the time.
Toward the end of legion I think players realized honor is pointless and only want to participate on victories and thats when the deserter fiasco began and has continued. When you could suffer through loses but keep your eye on the light at the end of the tunnel for the progression honor gear, people stuck it out. There was a reason to endure the beat down.
1 Like
No, he’s correct. PVP has progression, hence progression based game just like PVE. You’re confusing PVP with games like fortnite and Call of Duty.
1 Like
That’s what my Boomkin was at before Classic came out. I wasn’t getting stomped.
This “gear and it’s effects on pvp” topic has been beaten to death on here, but here are my 2 cents (again): there is no excuse to not be at least 430 on your main this far into the patch.
If you are not even 430 on your main? I think you’re just lazy, because it’s not even that hard for a casual player 
Where do casual PvPers get ilevel 430 gear?
We’re only 5 weeks into the 430 cycle for capping conquest.
2 Likes
430 gear is coming from Conquest but many times not what you need. I just got a 430-435 Chest for the second time.
2 Likes
Easy, from M+ and weekly chest (440+ items). Heroic raid also drops 430 items, and I’m guessing a decent amount of casuals are in guilds that at least attempt/are progressing heroic Eternal Palace.
Also, 430 azerite armor pieces are pretty cheap - you can buy 2 pieces per week if you want (or you can opt to save up for one 445 piece).
There’s plenty of gear to go around, and from multiple sources.
Don’t even need M+ or raids. Just go to Nazjatar for some mana pearls during queue times.
1 Like
Casual PvPers should be running Mythic +10s and heroic raids?
That’s your expectation for players in random bgs?
What ilevel 430 gear do you get from mana pearls in Nazjatar?
2 Likes
Had a feeling someone would say that, which is why I added in Nazjatar. No you don’t have to do pve group content, he was just saying if you want some quick loot.
Yeah I forgot to mention that (since I don’t really bother with pearls/benthic gear), but I believe the benthic gear can go up to 425. The benthic azerite pieces can go up to 430 if upgraded.
And all the Nazjatar stuff is mostly stuff you can do half-asleep, so the gear is “free” pretty much… as long as you just show up daily and put in the 30-40 minutes to do the dailies/WQ’s/etc.
1 Like
Can go as high as 420 or 425. Do that and cap CP and you’ll be 430 easy.
i hated nazjatar ftr. it doesnt feel fun to play, its a very, very annoying grind for someone that really just wants to do bgs
im putting that on hiatus and going to play classic indefinitely. may not come back to bfa at all, if i do it will probably be leveling bgs
i know classic has grinds too, but i like how classes feel different, and stuff you do feels meaningful
1 Like
I believe 425 is under 430.
And you need to farm hundreds of mana pearls to get all those pieces upgraded.
And that still leaves multiple slots (e.g. rings and trinkets) open.
So if you want an average ilevel of 430, you’ll also need 435+ items to compensate for the 425 benthic gear and other sub-430 slots.
2 Likes