Seriously, the changes to M+ and Raiding in DF almost literally makes everyone unhappy. M+ is even more important for Raiders now, as M+ loot is better than almost all of the loot you have during prog and a good number of the pieces you will wear in your BIS template. Meanwhile, M+ players on the top-end suffer even more if they choose not to raid, as the best pieces of Raid Loot are even better than the best pieces of raid loot currently are in SL, further punishing you if you don’t Raid.
Everyone loses even harder. This seems like some sort of twisted/mistaken version of the understanding that “a good compromise leaves everyone unhappy”… thinking that making a decision that makes everyone even more unhappy from an otherwise functional status quo somehow makes the situation better.
I would love for someone to sit down with the Blizzard guys and really get them to try to put into words what it is exactly they’re trying to accomplish here, because as far as I can tell basically everyone loses except for the hardcore players who no-lifes the game in both M+ AND Raid (who was already at a big advantage and no one thought needed a bigger advantage).
So again I ask, who are these loot changes for? Because they’re certainly not for the vast, vast, vast majority of players who play this game, the players whose subscriptions are on the line.
41 Likes
Who here is excited at being forced to raid for M+?
5 Likes
They are trying to make raiding more desirable by making other content less so. Moronic, maybe address raiding itself, long pointless run backs endless trash, so on and so on…
30 Likes
Blizzard and swinging for the fences every other expansion instead of making moderate, reasonable decisions and allowing players to choose what works best for them
Name a more iconic duo
13 Likes
Probably since DF is such a barebones expansion where the only meaningful endgame is raiding and mythic plus, they’re trying to overcomplicate the hamster wheel to keep players playing. Aka, trying to bottleneck you into playing both forms of content as a must rather than one or the other.
14 Likes
They’re not just making raiding “more desirable” though. They’re making raiding more desirable for M+ players… but then they’re trying to make M+ more desirable / a more important mandatory weekly chore for raiding players when many raiders on this forum and elsewhere already whine about having to commit time to M+. M+ loot is better than roughly half the loot that drops in the Raid, and M+ loot is also almost certainly the best source of crafted materials given that “extend culture” is not likely going anywhere.
What all this does is simply punish you if you don’t help Ion hit his played-time metrics by engaging in all forms of content.
Raiding players are worse off in DF.
M+ players are worse off in DF.
We all lose except Ion and those who engage in his little puppet show.
This is what it seems like. Force people to play more of the existing content they might prefer not to, in order to cover for lack of content.
8 Likes
I really don’t see a major issue here. So our absolute bis items are spread across mythic+ and raids… okay? Unless you provide proof that you can’t complete the raid with just raid gear I don’t see an issue.
5 Likes
This view of raiding and how it affects other parts of the game has existed for many, many years. I wish I could go back and find post about this way back in WoTLK. People complained about this very thing even before M+ existed. Blizzard will always reward the player base that raids over anything else. That’s the nature of WoW end game and that’s how it will always be IMO.
2 Likes
You didn’t read the post.
Raiders are worse off in DF too. You will not likely hit the point where you can stop playing M+ as a raider until the tier is completely over given how M+ loot is better for you now.
This is not Wrath of the Lich King. There is no “raid log” phase of this patch because you will be strung along hoping for that +3 ilvl for your tier pieces that you can forge with the Catalyst or your ring or whatever. There’s realistically no point in the season you can stop grinding M+ as a raider, unlike now where raid drops work in conjunction with M+ to help you eventually reach a point where you can just raid-log until the end of the tier.
Everyone loses under this system except those who enjoy being Ion’s puppet.
3 Likes
You answered your own question OP: Who this pleases but the top percent of players who raid and do mythic plus. Activision Blizzard has always done things that made the top playerbase feel happy and subscribed. Why? Well they need those bodies playing their characters on live feed for their Tournaments so advertisers can shill blizzard millions for their products to be advertised there. Its all on how you can exploit your community and your country for the most cash and with bobby kotic at the head of it all there is no better schemer / manipulator to earn more cash than him. So while we all voice our complaints and problems we have Blizzard will wipe their tears away with wads of $100 bills as they make jokes (funny that i mention this with the dracthyr joke towards worgen tails) about why the forum people are crying and laugh at us all the way as they continue to take our cash.
5 Likes
It’s honestly pretty frustrating. The overwhelming negative reaction to the announcement should of told them the player base really doesn’t want to go back to this crap system. They like to mention the poor mail wearing classes are harder to gear…even tho they just added the Evoker that changes that dynamic. Really hoping this gets scrapped but knowing blizz they will only do that after the subs tank about a month into DF. Same old…
9 Likes
Also if you look at all the talent tree changes from their first versions on how fun and amazing they looked to current. They been pruned and nerfed pretty hard. A lot of the talent tree’s feel worse than they did in the first month they showed them. Lots of people are unhappy and feel ignored. The soar nerfs that no one asked for are still there, the anti fun changes they keep making are ramping up. Because they already got all their preorders in.
Its why i have yet to preorder.
7 Likes
To paid play time metrics by forcing hopeless addicts to grind endless time away raiding and M+.
1 Like
Yup.
It is what it is, but realistically the only way we are signaling to Blizzard this design is bad is when it is already too late and we have to “pull the ripcord” on our sub.
Maybe in 10.1, more likely 10.2/10.3 the sub-loss during this patch will cause them to pivot towards a more player-friendly design.
It’s kind of cringe that every single expansion is the same song and dance - expansion comes out and will be bad at launch until sub-loss forces them to make it better. They keep saying they’ve learned their lesson but they never do.
11 Likes
well why should they, millions of players still preorder the game yelling “BLIZZARD CHANGED, THEY ARE LISTENING TO US!” They are still duping the masses and taking their cash with this tune and dance. In this country we vote with our wallets and people continue to dish out mass amounts of cash for poor designed games, microtransactions and other things that continue to make the gaming industry worse. They bought what they paid for.
1 Like
Along with the top end players, lets not leave out the casual players who could get to 15s and KSM but felt it was a difficult challenge to do so, who are probably now thinking 18s will be out of reach this time around. Its a big hit to new expansion hype. Especially along with seeing that getting 4pc tier will be 2+ months out.
(Season 1 of a new xpac feels much harder to get there than season 3 or 4 at the end)
3 Likes
The only way this system isn’t trash is there is a valor rank up to 421 at least, maybe 425 even.
But that had a 0% chance of happening.
2 Likes
The problem is the players haven’t either. Blizz can bet pretty safely on being able to release whatever they want and still getting a phat preorder batch and a year of subs.
1 Like
Yeah, casuals are left behind big time.
If Blizzard puts the cut-off for Concentrated Primal Infusions at M18s to match the top ilvl gear, casual players who were previously doing their weekly15noleavers will massively lag behind, as the base Primal Infusions are 13 ilvls worse. Basically if you don’t make that M18 cut-off you’re severely shafted, forced to use heroic ilvl gear for the embellishments which is a huge hit to you a more laid-back non-pushing casual.
Unfortunately you’re probably right about this.
Mythic plus have really been welfare epics for too long anyway. Worse than lfr.
2 Likes