I just am not very well-read on the important (or interesting) Forsaken characters besides Lilian Voss and Nathanos. But I’m curious if things come to a head with Sylvanas, which side they’d fall on in the conflict?
Lilian Voss is likely to be against Sylvanas. Nathanos for her. That’s a start.
I’d imagine a few in the priest order hall would side against her, but I don’t know.
I suppose we could speculate on Sira Moonwarden (supposing she doesn’t die in Darkshore) and Delaryn Summermoon as well.
For Sylvanas:
Lydon
Belmont
Blightcaller
Sira
Faranell
Summermoon
Dark Ranger Areiel
Bank Vendors
Bat Vendors
Pet Vendors
Deathstalkers
Deathguards
Plaguethrowers
Plaguemakers
Plaguesprayers
Plaguemaster
High Lord Plaguedy Plague
Defilers
RAS
Dreadguards
Queenguards
Leonid Barthalomew, the Revered
He was freed from the Scourge by Sylvanas, and is Forsaken, however when WoW kicked off he had left them and joined the Argent Dawn and later Argent Crusade.
We havnt seen him since WoD, but I doubt Blizz is done with him. Especially since the research he was doing (studying the bridge between life and proper afterlife) would likely play very well into a Shadowlands expansion.
Whether Lillian Voss is Forsaken is up for debate, but boils down to this: She was raised by Forsaken forces, but immediately went off on her own. She never swore any fealty to Sylvanas. After she got over being Undead, she still didnt join them - she took off on her own personal crusade instead. Her joining the Horde is the closest she has ever got to joining Sylvanas.
So, it depends on how you feel about it:
Does she count as Forsaken because she was raised as one? - OR -
Is she not Forsaken because she immediately took off and never joined/swore allegiance to Sylvanas or the Forsaken in any way?
This is the biggest thing stopping me from saying “yup he’ll support her 100%”. Ever since he got his new body things have been changing for our boy Nathanos. He’s starting to feel again.
This is actually a fairly interesting character. Because if they do go the civil war route, I have trouble thinking of any prominent Forsaken characters who wouldn’t side with Sylvanas.
There’s Voss, of course. But I’m hesitant to actually call her Forsaken, as I typically only regard Forsaken as those who are officially part of the society. But even if you include her, she’s just one Undead. Maybe Nathanos if they play up his change of heart.
But all the others? The ones who aren’t “main characters” like Voss and Blightcaller? I can’t see them changing.
I’m talking about characters like Lydon and Faranell. Pretty much any member of the RAS is gonna be on her side.
The Deathstalkers? Belmont is their commander, and I couldn’t see him turning against his Queen.
Any of the Grand Executors? Sylvanas through and through.
Helcular? Can’t imagine his rod serving anyone but Sylvanas.
So even if they go through with something like that, I have trouble imaging a Forsaken post-Sylvanas. It’d have to be run by entirely new characters, which would kinda suck.
Your post has me mad worried that Calia’s going to show up and lightforge zelling back to (un)life and lead the Forsaken, in the Horde, against Sylvanas.
Like, don’t get me wrong I want Sylvanas dead, but an Alliance puppet leader is not the answer.
I don’t think he is either. But WoW’s story is so volatile that I don’t feel like I can stay it won’t happen.
That, and if Nathanos does turn against Sylvanas, he’d most likely take his own life afterwards from how Dark Mirror portrayed him. She is pretty much the only reason he continues to exist.
It’s a very real thing to worry about. They’re obviously doing something with Calia.
If the Horde civil war comes true, then that means the Forsaken would pretty much have to join in on it. And though players like Voss might be okay with that, I just can’t imagine your typical Forsaken Deadguard fighting against Sylvanas.
So if that does happen, I’m curious/worried how they’ll handle that. How do you turn the Forsaken, as a majority, against someone like Sylvanas in a way that doesn’t feel hamfisted or forced?
Either way, it’s gonna be a terrible story for someone. Someone’s gonna get that end of the stick.
Agreed, I think it’s more likely that Nathanos gets killed and she has to choose between doing something selfless for someone she cares about or just powering through with her plans and not wasting Valkyr on him. That’s more interesting to me than him betraying her since it wouldn’t really be in character for him given everything we know from DM, BtS, AGW, and basically the entirety of BFA.
Questioning her is about as far as I see that going. Which is fine, I’d actually love to see a conversation between the two where he asks her why she burned the tree. Sadly, he doesn’t really get that kind of nuance in game, he’s mostly just portrayed as a lapdog but in the novels/short stories he takes much pleasure in goading her and making her angry, which is a dynamic I love lol.
Back when BfA first started, my initial prediction for Sylvanas’ evolution as a character was that she would have to rediscover the worth of Life. It’s still the direction I hope they take her, though things have certainly gotten muddier.
And the key to that, me thinks, is to put her in a position you described. Where she’s forced to confront one of the very few personal attachments she still has. And really, I think only Nathanos and possibly Vereesa could provoke that sort of reaction out of her.
To be fair, Garona continues to straight up tell us she was conscripted, and she’s just keeping her head down from the crazed fanatics that conscripted her. Voss … was also conscripted (and she strongly implies under threat early in the War Campaign). Neither of these women would want anything to do with Sylvanas if they weren’t being compelled to work for her by force.
The irony is that Faol, Barhalomew, and Voss quite literally represent the epitome of Forsaken “Free Will” (at least in the way they preach it); despite none of them being “Forsaken”. None of them were indoctrinated by the Sylvanas “Cult of Personality”, and thus are not bound by whatever poor “optional” version of “Free Will” Sylvanas runs off of. Even Zelling (who I’m super pissed about), wasn’t really a Forsaken; as his loyalties lied more with Voss than Sylvanas, Nathanos, or the Forsaken faction. The funny thing is, you are either a Undead who exercises “Free Will”, or you are “Forsaken” (and your free will is only acceptable as long as its convenient for Sylvanas).
Sylvanas herself has never really been bound by Forsaken “Free Will”. She tolerates “Free Will” (at least within the original generation of Forsaken), but she’s not bound by that ideology (its “optional”). Val’kyr are slaves, they don’t have “Free WIll”. Her use of Valentine and Derek, she denied them “Free Will” (simply by making the argument that they don’t count as Forsaken, despite being revived by Forsaken). The idea that she’s toyed with the “Free Will” of the NEs she’s raised (to make them more convenient) is also very possible; because trying to do exactly that is what she trying to accomplish with Koltira Deathweaver while she held him captive since Cata.
You are either sentient Undead (and live in the truest sense of “Free Will”); or you are Forsaken (and you live within “Free Will” that is convenient for Sylvie). That’s your options.
Gunther Arcanus will show up and be like “Nah you aren’t the coolest Undead here. Begone.” Then proceed to disappear from the game for another 40 years.
I feel like I have this conversation, like, every month. EoN, to me, represented Sylvanas seeing the Forsaken as more than just tools. Like that was the whole point of going from the mentality of “arrows in her quiver” to “bulwark against the infinite”. She is shown that the Forsaken cease to exist without her around. As long as she is around the Forsaken will continue as a race and as long as they are around her empire, everything she has worked for, will endure. We see her genuinely care about their future in both Silverpine and Stormheim. I would make the argument that BtS even shows her caring about them, albeit in a twisted way that comes from a dark place (she didn’t want them to go through what she went through with Vereesa, ofc Golden had to take it a step too far and kill off all the DC instead of just the defectors). Its also noted that she would much rather be spending time in Undercity with her people than in Org playing politics with all the other races.
I reject the notion that she only sees the Forsaken as tools. She’s a dead sociopath with little ability to feel and sustain empathy but I think they’ve done well enough to show she does care about them.