Which team you rooting for in MDI?

Gameplay Dungeons, Raids and Scenarios
22

I mean, class balance has never not left a lot to be desired. M+ is more inclusive, across specs, than it was in Legion.

7.3.2, good ol’ Antorus, 6 specs made up 75% of all dps in high level keys. In Current bfa Season 2, 10 specs make up 76%.

For tanks, the top tanks were, in order, 67%, 18%, and 13%, with the bottom two combined having a whopping 2% between them. Currently, it’s 55%, 17%, 14%, 9%, 3 and 2%.

The only thing that is worse now than in previous iterations, inclusion wise, is healers. I’ve made this point before. In 7.3.2, holy pally and druid dominated at 55% and 41%, with the other four healing specs only having a combined 5%. Compared to now, with druids at 67%, monk at 15%, and the bottom four combined hitting 18%. So, better for the “weaker” healers, but also less overall inclusive. Technically.

And the people complaining about the MDI, well, what do they expect. The rules about changing comp are significantly more strict this time around, with a max of one swap being allowed per match. That means, while there might be (and often are) meta picks for this or that dungeon, or affix combo, switching your comp for the one dungeon could hurt you in the 1-2 dungeons after, and is thus not worth it.

In Legion, the comp switches were a lot more freebee and allowed. Now, even when the better picks could be taken, you might hurt yourself in a different dungeon with different affixes. Outlaw+monk is just a safe pick for dps. It’s really not always the best, but it’s never bad, and it’s never the worst.

So what’s the issue, beyond “but muh class balance”

1 Like
23

The thing is, just because class balance was also bad in legion doesn’t mean it also has to be bad now. If blizz put more effort into balancing classes in dungeon content, it would be better. But their main focus is raid balance and dungeons get the short shrift.

24

Comparing BoD and CoS to season 2 M+, m+ is objectively more inclusive than raid is at a high level for everything but healers.

25

Objectively false.

See stats for Mythic Jaina, which so far still only about 400 guilds have killed. Every single spec in the game is represented there. Albeit some specs like Sub and Survival are very rarely seen. The same simply isn’t true of high level mythic+ There are fully half a dozen specs in high level mythic+ that are of no use at all and have 2 digit representation in 20+ keys.

More importantly, the top 2 DPS specs in M+ (outlaw and havoc) have more than twice the representation of the third placed DPS spec. Raiding balance isn’t nearly so skewed.

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26

And now we get to the crux of it. You’re comparing 20+ keys to the top 400 guilds to have killed it.

M+ is a variable difficulty, meaning it’s a lot harder to measure. That, combined with it being limited to 5 people, means group comp matters more.

Mythic is 20 people. Obviously, it’s not like the old days, where a portion of your group could be “carries”. But, it is a larger group, and slack can be picked up as ilvl increases. I’m sure by some process of math, you could evaluate precisely where each boss is comparable to m+ with certain affix/dungeon combos. But even I’m not that autistic.

So we could look at it a different way. The week Jaina was first killed, 13 keys were completed in time. Now, giving a bit more leeway to raid, as the top 13 kills were significantly more spaced out, but for the sake of comparison.

In the top 13 dungeons runs, all 22s, 5 tank, 3 healer, and 13 dps specs were used.

In the first 13 kills of Jaina, 4 tank, 6 healer, and 10 dps specs were used.

If you want to expand it to 400, every single spec has cleared a +20 and Jaina, although several are single digits. If you go back to 8.1, 23 dps specs cleared a +20, but only 21 dps specs had killed mJaina.

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27

I didn’t miss any point. You have just fooled yourself into thinking the point is something other than it is.
You think Blizzard need to “make” things fair. Things are only a fair as somebody makes it.
In a Legion people thought I was a crackpot for insisting that Meld was the strongest racial for M+ just because “top” teams weren’t using it because Horde was clearly superior. Look at it now.
The only reason we are seeing the homogeneous comps is because of the lack in creativity, as far as comp goes, of the top teams.
You cleary think it’s a balance issue, i think it’s a player issue. Rather than blame balance someone needs to try out different ideas before blaming the nebulous “balance”.
Why not run a BrM a MW. 2 arcane mages and an Unholy? Drop Dave, Mw heals dave Aoe everything down, brew rounds up mobs. Whether it’s viable or not is conjecture because no one has tried it including you.

28

At first I thought you were loopy, but I realized this is actually a very compelling point since no racial changes have been made since Legion.

29

EU dunking NA as always.

30

You thought meld was the strongest racial when there was no reaping and arcane torrent still AOE silenced?

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31

Yes, skipping was alway overpowered and just because you only see it now proves my point. You should have seen it in Black Rook, Seat of Triumvirate and Cathedral. I’m sure with even an ounce of thought it could have been used in every dungeon. Lkara, arcway and CoS.

32

Arcane Torrent was changed from an incredibly powerful AOE silence to a very situational AOE purge.

Shadowmeld is indirectly more useful in BFA S2 because there are now more skippable mobs per M+ run, even if the racial itself didn’t change.

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33

Imagine getting an attitude while missing the point a second time

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34

Yes, sorry, I should have clarified that I was being sarcastic. Arcane Torrent was obviously a huge change and the person I was quoting was making it sound like his prediction “held up” because people gradually realized he was right, as opposed to because of changes made to the game since then.

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35

Does’t that kind of disprove your argument that there’s more diversity in M+?

The top teams aren’t very smart but you’re much smarter, eh? Interesting argument.

36

I never claimed I was smarter. What I’m saying is they stick to comps they are comfortable with and any variety you do see won’t be very far from their comfort zone.
I don’t blame them either. It’s not an easy task mastering anything to that degree and then doing it again in time for the event?
I have no issue with any comps they have. I like it.
What I’m saying is that by blaming Blizzard for the choices top teams make in order to be competitive, you make yourself look stupid, uncreative and pathetically envious. That’s all.
Do I enjoy watching them break the game?Yes. Do I think there are plenty more game breaking secrets hiding in all the comps available? Also, Yes. Do I think the top teams make it thier mission to explore every single option available? Of course not.

37

The only stupid person here is you. Utter drivel combined with narcissistic claims of greatness, probably the worst poster in the forum to date.

The top teams pick those classes because they do the most damage. It’s got nothing to do with what they are “comfortable with”, literally everyone is playing the same classes regardless of what they usually play. And they are playing those classes because those classes do the most damage, something that is entirely down to Blizzard.

Trying to pretend anything else is just stupid.

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38

No, how does it do that.

39

It shows almost the same numbers - 21 specs versus 20 specs - in your samples of the top 13 raids and M+.

40

My point was that m+ is more inclusive on an overall standpoint at the top end, with the exception of healers, who have a significantly lower spread rep.

What I presented supports that…?

41

“Overall” would include healers.