I don’t see why that would matter. She asked them for help right after they lost Undercity. There’s also the option of not immediately jumping into a war that they were probably going to lose anyway. Then they wouldn’t have been in a losing war when she came to visit.
War fatigue. The war on Argus had literally just ended. Political will to engage in another full scale global conflict would be very low, and military resources would still be at a nadir. It would have been the perfect time to engage in diplomacy to postpone future conflicts for an extended period.
She doesn’t get NO credit for bringing in the allies… but basically, all she orders is “bring me allies.” She doesn’t come up with the notion of the Nightborne and Highmountain, and she CERTAINLY doesn’t do the legwork to establish relationships with them, both in Legion and in the recruitment.
Basically all she does is approve of the plan after other faction leaders bring a suggestion. It’s like your boss signing his signature to approve a project you’ve been working on for three months, then claiming that the boss did all the work.
She asked them for help right after being broken out of a prison. And it matters because at that point, the Horde was still winning the war.
Doesn’t slow ships down I’m afraid. And given the War of Thorns still happened in this hypothetical scenario of yours, which took an untold number of weeks according to the Novellas I’m afraid the Alliance still has had time to mobilize.
Isn’t this what happens though and your boss does indeed get all the credit because they managed their workers properly? You may get a bonus, but not as big as your boss’.
That’s kinda what the head of the state is for, no? Would you really expect the warchief to go on every diplomatic mission? I mean, would you WANT sylvanas to? She’s cool, but I doubt she’d sit well with the highmountain.
Would you like some tea?
No im a zombie you idiot moose.
Negotiations over.
How so? They lost Undercity and failed to accomplish their goals in Ashenvale. That seems like a draw at best so far.
This part of my discussion wasn’t about the War of Thorns, it was about their reasoning for initiating the War of Thorns. It precedes the instigating action. You asked me to give a reason why the Alliance wouldn’t have attacked immediately after Argus. War fatigue is why. Without the War of Thorns, there would be no war and no siege on Orgrimmar.
The Horde is losing a war that didn’t need to happen, and you can blame it all on Sylvanas’ insane troll logic and Saurfang’s inability to rub two neurons together long enough to come up with a coherent rebuttal.
That’s fair, which is why I think it’s reasonable to give her SOME credit. All I’m saying is let’s not make it more than it is, especially considering the growing dissension in 8.1.
Alliance lost a capital city, a massive civilian population, the army defending Teldrassil, and the better part of a much larger army attacking Lordaeron.
Horde lost a capital, the army defending Lordaeron, and a part of the army attacking Lordaeron.
Even if we assume the Horde’s significant casualties in the War of Thorns were equal to the massacre we saw befall the Alliance forces in Battle for Lordaeron, something there’s no reason to do. Battle for Lordaeron was still a much smaller engagement with far fewer Horde troops specifically designed to maximize Alliance casualties.
And it responded to my post about the Alliance’s attack being imminent. So, focus up I guess. After War of Thorns the Alliance was coming for the Horde. There is no “perfect time to negotiate peace.”
While I agree that every time Golden writes Sylvanas, she’s very emotional and unstable, I’m not sure Golden is TRYING to write her as crazy as she comes off.
Then where did all those NE guerillas in Ashenvale come from?
And there’s no reason to assume that the Alliance suffered more casualties than the Horde. Isn’t it fun when Blizzard will never ever ever give hard numbers to anything?
I can’t wait for when Saurfang’s rebellion defeats the Sylvanas loyalists who were only ever a minority of the Forsaken despite being able to prosecute the entire Horde war effort.
I was pointing out the flawed premise of the War of Thorns and responded to your question about it. It was always about the point in time right after Argus.
Also there were two perfect moments for negotiation:
The best one would have been after Argus and before any random acts of pointless violence, but that would have been too easy because peace never lasts forever so engaging in never ending global conflicts that would drive both sides to economic ruin and borderline extinction is a way better plan.
The second opportunity was after capturing Teldrassil. Taking hostages and loot before withdrawing to a defensible position would allow for negotiating from a position of strength. Instead, Sylvanas decided to burn the tree down while counting on the Alliance’s boy Emperor (because that’s what he is now because Blizzard can’t write an actual alliance) to carry the idiot ball. Truly a genius plan that would only be better if it had actually led to a strategic advantage instead of massive casualties and the Horde still losing.
That just means that the most powerful archdruid in the world can be taken down by conventional means, and is in no way immune to Horde attacks. Hell, Sylvanas was holding her own pretty well in a 1v1 - albeit still losing - so it stands to reason that him living would’ve meant basically nothing to their hold on Teldrassil, save for an inconvenience if he attempted to match their blockade.
Malfurion doesn’t have skin that shrugs off wounds.
The point of saying this is that if caught off guard or prone, anyone could be killed. Most are written as being extremely aware of their surrounding so such things can’t happen.
By your own account, Sylvanas was holding her own, but it wasn’t going to be enough and she would have lost. This means that Saurfang’s intervention made up for that little bit, but so much so that it put Malfurion down.
Malfurion might be the most powerful druid but it doesn’t mean he is impervious to everything.
You’re right, he’s not impervious to everything. He’s one powerful guy, not a full Horde invasion army full of other potential “most powerfuls.” His living does not mean Teldrassil couldn’t be held.
I would disagree considering that Teldrassil is a giant living forest that Malfurion would most likely use against the Horde, making it not worth the effort of holding it.
The threat of burning it over non-compliance lasts forever, no matter how animate you make your forest. Doesn’t matter how much you move - if you’re made of wood, you burn fast. Plus, it’s not like he was the only druid in there.