Hello ! I’m a fury warrior and I’m currently locking to get a new item with my bullion. I’m not sure if i should use them for the neltharion weapon or the diurna chosen ring ? what should itake first ? i already have use my first 2 for my axe and now i dont know what should i buy next
Depends a bit on what content you’re doing and specs you intend to play, but generally speaking:
- Scale of Awakening > Seal of Diurna’s Chosen > Primary Trinket > Ashkandur (as Fury) or Voice of the Silent Star (for raiding/non-push M+) > Second Trinket or Seal of Filial Duty.
For “Primary” trinkets, you want:
- Fury: Augury of the Primal Flame in all content.
- Arms:Ominous Chromatic Essence or Whispering Incarnate Icon for raid, Whispering Incarnate Icon or Neltharion’s Call to Chaos for Mythic+, depending on how likely you are to maximize the OCE/Icon bonuses.
For “Secondary” trinkets, consider the following:
- Both Arms and Fury: Cataclysmic Signet Brand or Elementium Pocket Anvil (>4m), or Algeth’ar Puzzle Box (<3m or M+), depending on the expected length of the encounter.
Because Puzzle Box is relatively easy to farm, the second trinket has a lower purchase priority.
If you’re interested, you can learn more on the Warrior discord.
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This is a good list, but I’d point out you didn’t prioritize rare items versus common drops. Noting which week is which and when you can potentially expect to see something drop in raid is also something to consider when making these choices. Always prioritize things you are unlikely to obtain first, not simply the biggest upgrade. This will minimize the gaps in your gear.
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It does, actually, which is why Eranog’s ring is first after the legendary upgrade, and why Sark’s cloak is tied with the primary trinket choice (the also very rare Augury or not-rare but highly contested OCE/Icon).
It’s also why Ashkandur for Fury has a lower priority due to the lack of competition for 2hrs, and there’s even a note explicitly stating that the second trinket has a lower priority because Puzzle Box is so easy to farm, so you might still want to consider the Broodkeeper ring despite it not actually adding any offensive value.
Obviously individuals should assess their own gear when making these choices (if you have a heroic Eranog ring already, purchasing a Mythic one is not a very high priority over a better slot upgrade), but this list is specifically made to give people the best gain for their currency, which includes both direct value proposition and opportunity cost.
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That just seemed like a bad pick for the second. I’m pretty sure Augury and Voice are a bigger gain, with a higher difficulty to acquire. Same reason I’d think about picking up Broodkeeper’s ring after those. For instance I picked up Voice this week, because I won’t be seeing it at best for another 2 weeks, but there is a chance for both rings next week. Ashkandur I’d put further down the list, that just doesn’t proc enough to skip on other items. It is a bigger status symbol than a DPS gain.
Just my opinion I guess. 
In a vacuum, maybe, but while Augury is the best trinket (for Fury), that is mitigated by a wide variety of other lootable trinkets, thereby lowering its relative gain. Eranog ring has no competition, as it is the only offensive cantrip ring in Season 4 - just outright ~1.5% better than even better itemized rings of the same item level. Even if Augury is slightly higher in your specific set of gear, the gains should be very comparable, they’re both very rare, and Augury is actually less contested than Eranog’s ring - it’s really only BiS everywhere for Fury whereas the ring is desired by practically everyone.
Voice is actually not that strong at all, and it also comes with a survivability downside (which is of varying value, depending on whether you are a major M+ push player or play BSL Arms). Based on actual DPS value, the best argument is dropping its priority below Ashkandur, and potentially even below the secondary trinket choice, but I kept it slightly higher simply because it is very rare - how much it matters is something I’m confident players can decide for themselves or at worst, won’t matter when they get their next purchase two weeks later.
That’s a short-term way to look at it. Each raid is on a two week cycle, as are Bullion, so everything is always two weeks away from the last time it was obtainable.
It isn’t about getting everything ASAP though - unless your raid group absolutely juices you with every drop you want before anyone else (which is not an expectation most people have), or you’re pugging and free-roll/buying every drop you want (though it’s unlikely that you’re pugging Mythic end bosses anyway), the reasonable expectation is not “I’ll get it this week,” especially for those very rare or highly contested items. Even assuming they do drop in a collaborative raid group, your buying it previously isn’t a loss, unless everyone else in the raid also happens to have it - that’s something individuals can work out with their group.
It’s the best Fury offhand in the game, contributes as much damage as the Eranog ring (doubled vs humanoids!), and is worth at least 3x the DPS value of Voice of the Silent Star - I think putting it in the middle of the priority is very reasonable.
The only reason it’s not higher is because there isn’t much loot competition for it with most high-end players using the legendary, and even a Heroic version is acceptable in the offhand. Coincidentally, the secondary trinket choice is also ranked low due to similar availability (of Puzzle Box, which is just about as good or potentially even better than BiS trinkets in shorter encounters).
I appreciate your opinion, but this wasn’t just a randomly thrown together list! That said, this is the objectively least important season for most players and will feature plenty of loot before it’s over, so my opinion is that everyone should feel free to buy whatever makes them happy and really not worry about it all that much.
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*3 week cycle. There are 3 raids, 1 each week. The next time we have Amirdrassil will be the 28th, that’s 18 days from now, 21 days from Tuesday. Long term thinking is planning for what can happen, and adjusting based on what does. Buying rings 4 days before having a chance at a drop, versus an equally rare drop that is 18 days out, is short term thinking. Forgetting what I think about the dps benefits of either.
This is margin of error levels of similarity. Yes it is better, but if you don’t look at the breakdown in a DPS log, you won’t notice the difference.
Yes, but not everyone can even complete heroic just now, but the first boss is EZPZ. First boss in mythic is infinitely more accessible as well.
I never said it was not.
Which makes it another margin of error dps gain.
Eh, depends how those stats hit you. Though I’ll be honest half the reason I took it was I’d not had my
and I missed out on it when it was current. I’d still bet it beats the proc from the ring or sword however.
I didn’t say it was. I think it was pretty implicit from my responses that I thought you had done otherwise.
You just have primary trinket 3rd. I’m still using my old augury and it is easily hitting 5% of my dps. That puts it above your #2 pick for anything but defensive reasons, period. On a side note, I’m betting the bloodmallet ranking of this trinket does some flipflopping for aoe. Unless it scales really poorly as item level goes up, I think the sims have it under rated in AOE situations. Only putting it just above grapnel is something I’d count on changing.
Since you wear 2 of each though, trinkets and rings are very safe choices.
Now if you want to swap the trinket and ring, that’s closer to what I’d do, but I still think I’d put voice above Ashkandur. But I’d be torn with that choice, and it would depend on what drops looked like. AND your comment on hard pushing keys is very relevant, and that also begs the question of: Why not the Broodlord ring instead? 
Arch provides facts backed by data, Cur provides nothing but feelycraft (because he apparently just wants to argue…). About par for the forums.
p.s. Follow Arch’s advice.
With the exception of (maybe? It wasn’t really a huge point of contention) Augary, which I’ll happily plant my flag on and you can come back in 2 months and rub it in if I’m wrong, we agree pretty strongly if not fully on the DPS gains from certain items.
Well, also how many weeks and time between potential drops, but I think that was brain fart not ignorance. If you would like to explain how there are 2 weeks between raids and not 3, I welcome you to do so. 
While I don’t expect you to read a wall of text, reading the summary at the end might help you avoid looking like a total derp:
But I know you like to troll instead of contribute, so whatever. 
This is not margin of error. Target margin of error (assuming you’re talking about simulations here) is 0.05%, or roughly 200 DPS in a BiS setup of approximately 400,000 and less in a weaker one.
Margin of error is for things like changing one gem to another, not for obvious major effect gains - gaining 1.5-2.0% from a single piece of gear that isn’t legendary or a tier set bonus is a very notable increase as far as WoW is concerned.
Then they can get Augury or some other trinket on a lower difficulty too or one of any number of other competitive trinkets. This is a meaningless moving of the conversational goal post.
It absolutely does not. I hate to break it to you, but the cloak is incredibly mediocre, it’s just novel and like the ring it has value in being the only offensive cantrip item in that slot. Just the effect of the ring or sword is worth ~2-3x that of the cloak and the extra item level on such a low budget slot.
Here’s a facsimile of the BiS setup using copycat items with the same stats and no effects (minus 7 item levels for the fake cloak), in order to give you an idea of how much the special effects and those 7 extra item levels on the cloak are actually worth.
As you can see, Ashkandur comfortably doubles Voice, and is wildly stronger vs humanoid bosses (of which there are several in Season 4). None of this is within the margin of error, and while you could shift these numbers slightly based on what you’re actually using, the point should still be very clear - Silent Star is not actually that strong.
Again, in a vacuum perhaps, but there are other trinkets in the game that you can use. If you’re using a Puzzle Box, an Anvil, or even Trampling Hooves that contributes 3-4 of that 5%, now your Augury is only worth 1-2%, while there is only one offensive special effect ring in the game.
If your trinkets are absolutely horrible and you managed to loot god tier rings in the first week, then that is a choice you can make individually, but that is a specific situation, not a general one that any guideline should be expected to account for - nobody ever said to follow my recommendation unthinkingly.
Because its defensive value isn’t reliable. The danger of very high keys is one-shots, which a sometimes active defensive shield can’t be depended upon to save, but a cloak that removes 5% of your maximum health pool does play an active role in.
The Broodkeeper ring provides a very nice defensive bonus, but it is still secondary to your main role of dealing damage, and people actually pushing very high key levels aren’t playing or gearing for the random and typically not life threatening damage that the shield is most likely to be spent mitigating. That said, it’s not a bad choice if you happen to have very good other pieces already; that’s why it’s a priority list and not an absolute.
Assuming you’re going out of your way to optimize this and barring extreme unluck, you get bullion at the start of the week, while you don’t get all of that week’s raid loot drops until the raiding week is over - however long that happens to take you may vary, but there aren’t any bosses left to kill after you’ve killed all of that week’s bosses. You will therefore go through two weeks worth of bosses between bullion purchases and two weeks worth of boss kills before those bosses become available again.
Hope that clears it up for you.
I was trying to be polite with the implication that I know more about this than you do. Feel free to do what you like though.
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I’m speaking real world here. Your dps is going to vary that much AT LEAST day to day fight to fight. Sims are flawed, particularly this early. Not that I dispute the number you gave on the ring, the proc has always been about 1.7% dps.
Hardly. My point was always planning for availability, not simply grabbing what put your numbers immediately higher.
Literally in my first reply. I think I’ve held my goalpost pretty firmly in place.
I’m actually glad you brought up anvil, because it is a great example of a trinket that jumped from meh, to top on sims when S2 came out. I’m not sure if it is on the forums or not, but I definitely called it at the time it was under rated. Sims are great, but don’t live and die by them. Particularly early in a tier.
That much is a goalpost move though. I still stand by my original position. Get what is rare first. Give items that are a potential drop in a few days a chance to, buy items that are big but don’t materialize in your loot.
Ok, but that’s not what margin of error means. Simulations average thousands of iterations for that exact reason though, and RPPM effects tend to be pretty consistent by design - the real variance in actual gameplay typically comes down to crit rates, the relative handful of percent based procs, and the cumulative effects of all those procs combined more so than just one (though high and low rolls definitely happen).
Acknowledging what you actually meant though, there’s no world in which Voice of the Silent Star matches the capability of Ashkandur or Diurna’s Chosen. It simply is not that strong of an effect, as has been demonstrated.
I don’t really know what you’re talking about, since Anvil didn’t exist prior to Season 2, but it might have something to do with the fact it was repeatedly changed during the PTR and after launch. Regardless, it was never actually one of the best trinkets for Warriors, nor is it even today in Season 4, though it has some application for players who like to go through the effort of chaining it in M+.
Season 4 also isn’t a tier of new effects. Yes, simulations can be flawed early in a tier (sometimes because Blizzard doesn’t allow us to adequately test everything on the PTR and sometimes because Blizzard hasn’t even gotten them working correctly yet either), but there is nothing new here to be called into question, so your newfound appeal to inaccuracy is unfounded.
Yes, you said that a few times, ignoring that those rare items were already listed first anyway, with the exception of the lackluster Broodkeeper Ring.
Nobody ever disagreed with that sentiment; it was all the other arguments that you brought up and dropped after they were disproven that were called into question - specifically your assertion that Voice and Augury were better picks than the Eranog ring, and later again that Voice was worth more than Ashkandur.
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Just highlighting this in hopes it sinks in. Cur just continues to post feelycraft with no support other than his opinion. It’s mildly frustrating when Arch has taken the time to provide a list supported by facts.
Look, I’d say Archi’s list seems reasonable for someone who’s not really too keen to think critically on what their situation and their gameplay needs in terms of “correct” bullion choices.
Some no brainers realistically are the Legendary Upgrade and Eggnog Ring (for me personally), since they pair so well together for a consistent ST boost (helps my vault was also a double socket this week) and I received no good rings at all early into the season alongside getting some pretty good trinket luck (Heroic CtC (528)/ M Anvil (528), H track Nokud (522).
Trinkets are kind of something you’d be buying with your 3rdonward bullion pair assuming you’d have picked up a random good trinket or two from your heroic/mythic raid kills or even dungeons, Nokud and Academy have some really competitive options that will make up the difference until later purchases.
I will say though depending on what specs your guild has in it’s raid composition will dictate if you even bother with OCE early on and Incarnate is basically a no go since no tanks will bother with it, if everyone wants to take Green from you (how dare they) and someone else is settling for Black or yellow instead of yourself (how dare they) then you’re kinda forced into a drop in another less desirable option to be a team player for everyone to have ‘all buffs’ (nooooooo).
Augury’s a bit of a wild card and I like it, it wasn’t always the highest simming trinket in combinations however it also gives access to some pretty gnarly RNG swings (just check variance of it compared to something like OCE through sims). So if you don’t mind a more volatile performance at the chance of having a higher top end lucky streak this trinket’s a really good choice for Arms if you’re a parse chaser.
Call to Chaos, best M+ trinket for us cannot convince me otherwise, snagged a heroic one last week and it’s been a real boon.
The sark cloak is a bit troll this early on (Just one man’s opinion), it’s proc is up every ~2mins and funnily enough certain fights based on timings will absolutely nullify it’s whole duration such as Sarkareth and many others at the cost of some HP which could lead to some awkward overkills, wouldn’t bother with this at all unless you had the Shield ring from Broodkeeper to help counter the lower health pool.
Overall, just take a step back think what is going to make your S4 meme dream the most fun because everyone’s going to see different loot drops on different difficulties through their vault so their upgrade paths will differ slightly but eventually reach the same points in the next month or so.
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Plus it also serves as another method to proc Eranogs ring as well. More methods are always nice, even if the main method we have is the legendary (due to the dot).
Just out of curiosity, how come Augury of the Primal Flame isn’t considered a must have trinket for Arms? Considering that Arms has a high crit chance/damage potential, wouldn’t the value of that trinket be relatively high?
RNG vs Consistency compared to OCE with all buffs is what I would assume to be the case.
Augs has a both a lower min and higher max pull to pull compared to OCE.
Apart of this is how fickle the proc decides to be for that encounter, another portion is not having passive strength that OCE has which means it’s not providing any value to Test of Might which taken in the main raid build, but not always taken in M+ where In for the Kill has a chance to shine and therefore the passive STR bonus doesn’t double dip in effectiveness.
I see what you’re saying. Do you think OCE loses out if ToM isn’t taken? Also, do you think OCE is a significant increase over Augury? Only reason why I’m asking is because of the current limited supply of Bullion available, making it hard press to grab everything you want/need for any spec or occasion. So, I’m trying to aim for more of an “all around” grab that will benefit all specs in all content.
Also, what about Fryakk’s Tainted Rageheart? I know it’s a tank trinket for sure, but it intrigues me. Could the constant aoe fire damage and the on use be useful for dps? I don’t really raid, so I never have access to all these unique items to play around with. Everything I am asking is for mythic+ content by the way.
Two main reasons:
- Arms is stronger baseline and so it typically gets better returns out of stat enhancements, while Fury gets slightly more relative value out of extra sources of direct damage.
- Arms traditionally stacks more crit, but Fury has such a high uptime on Reck that it often has an equal or even higher overall crit rate. Combined with more haste and several of its attacks hitting multiple times results in more crits during Augury’s active window.
It has some use in heavy multitarget (like chain pulling M+), but that’s about it.
Take this with a grain of salt and is merely based on my own droptimizer sims @ 521 ilvl single target with the gear I currently have access to. (Sim settings default options, 5min one target.)
With all ally OCE buffs, OCE is only 1734 dps ahead with ToM, with IftK in the exact same builld Augury ends up being 554 dps ahead on the average.
With no buffs, Augury sits at 3k higher with ToM, and 5.6k higher with IftK.
So if you’re going for something that’s going to be jack of all trades option Fury/Prot would love the access to Augury and Arms would do well enough with it just fine if you’re looking at this from a purely M+ / Pug raid pov.
However if you’re apart of a raid group that’s got multiple users of OCE that’s also allowing you to pickup a favourable colour buff (comp dependant) it’s not a bad option to take instead of it for a more consistent throughput for both yourself and the other raid members.
Weigh up the following. Coordinated Group (Raids) vs Solo play (M+/Pug Raids) and RNG vs Consistency.
Regarding Rageheart for DPS, honestly it’s only worth using if you’re doing higher m+ push keys where you need an additional 2minute defensive to cycle through being able to survive some tyrannical boss cycles that you wouldn’t have the defensive cooldowns to survive through either, this niche is mostly very high end coordinated m+ that most people won’t really touch so there’s no real point picking this up until much later in your bullion stash assuming you play all 3 warrior specs for the S4 meme season.