I’m skipping over a lot of small details that are utterly irrelevant.
Like, what would it matter whether or not Terenas viewed her as a worthy successor? Does that undo the fact she wasn’t there when bad stuff kept happening to her former people? Does that make it better? What do you feel that realistically changes?
Not even true, because Arthas died in Wrath and she waited to pop back into their unlives again after Legion.
And what political power did Sylvanas have as a dead elf, former Ranger General of a foreign nation, within the Lordaeronian royal heirarchy? Because she managed to find a way to help out just fine.
You missed the point entirely, and that’s fine. I’ll restate it for you.
Why the hell should the forsaken have accepted as their leader a woman who, buy your own admission, was at best a useless princess who for reasons never did anything to help the Forsaken, and only came around way late to cause an attempted reunion between the living and dead Lordaeronians to go completely south when she attempted to recruit the attending forsaken to join the faction that once wanted them dead, all while Sylvanas watched on?
Why would the forsaken accept someone with such terrible judgment, someone whose only ties to them was that time when she was a useless princess and the sister of their murderer?
Hmmm, I wonder what the reason could possibly be. Not to mention she actually is the last remaining member of the Royal family (whether she was useless or not) of the kingdom the overwhelming majority of the Forsaken were part of in their living lives.
Really just seems like you just have a full on hate for her regardless of the actual history of the character. Ah well. You do you.
I mean, you probably should be wondering. I dunno if you know this, but
And, like… A lot of stuff happened between those two periods.
No, actually, we did mention that. I think you might want to scroll up and reread both of our posts, because neither of us failed to mention this at any point.
No, I was very clear about my issues; she shouldn’t be the leader of the Forsaken. She doesn’t fit. Not them, not their history apart from the Lordaeronian throne, not the recent terrible history associated with her family name, not from her own actions…
Really, other than “my pappa ruled here before big brother killed him and someone else took over for a few decades that utterly changed who you are as a people” and “I too am also undead,” there’s zero connective tissue and her being suddenly in charge makes no sense.
But you don’t seem to have a real argument, just wanted to play a little aggro to get my attention, so.
interesting how in all those quotes you skipped the actual parts that showed literally what she was doing during that time and the reasons. Not to mention you keep clipping out the part where she literally worked to try to reconcile the Forsaken with their living families and got assassinated for it. But again you do your little hate jones thing. I’m done here.
And then during the meeting, she tried to get them to join the Alliance.
You have done a great job of not refuting any of that and simply saying “well you forgot some unimportant, incidental thing that changes nothing at all.”
All those words were in English. If you’re struggling to understand them, I’m afraid that’s on you. I have a long posting history, and it is very rare that someone cannot understand the very words in my post as you’ve confessed to struggling with.
I was being civil, and giving actual lore based evidence that your stance that she didn’t do anything (the entire basis for your argument of hating her) was patently false.
Your response was to continuously edit out those details in your replies. And when I said you keep doing you and kindly tipped my hat advising the discussion between us was over since it was clear you weren’t going to accept those simple truths from the literal lore/story (since you kept conveniently removing those portions from your responses).
Your continued response was to make a presumption that someone relaying literal facts was being aggro somehow and then continuing with pure condescension.
So again you do you. We’re done.
On a side note. That’s not the correct use of the term irony btw. But considering you decided to once again creatively edit and separate the full statement, you might also wanna look into sarcasm.
Ok, you have said this three times now. It becomes very hard to believe you are done if you keep responding.
Do you just wish me to let you get the last word in?
That is fair. I should have said hypocricy.
So, you are new here I suppose.
There is no edit mark near any of my posts. Admittedly the last one should have one because that one post was editted, and the mark does show up for me. But lying to imply it’s occurred multiple times?
Why be so dishonest?
Also, this post has now been editted, so the number is up to two!! I got rid of attempts to try and have a discussion with you still, but why bother?
Sylvanas wanted a weapon and she used their hatred as an arrow to try and pierce Arthas, and had she not gone to Maw she probably wouldn’t have cared what fate befell them after he was killed.
People trusted Terenas, even some of the Forsaken liked him/remember better times under him.
Like what exactly was she suppose to do? She had to go in hiding and more importantly, the Forsaken at the time might have just killed her if she did anything. Not to mention she had a family of her own at the time to protect.
And she literally didn’t care about them after he was defeated either. Remember she literally just jumped off the pinnacle of Icecrown. Even when the Val’kyr showed her that the Forsaken would off themselves as well after her death she still didn’t care. It was only her vision of her fate to end up in the Maw. And the only reason she kept going was because she didn’t want to go to the Maw.
After that it was mostly just keeping on and acting out of spite towards Garrosh wanting to treat them like she had, as meaningless canon fodder. Or as she put it “Nothing but arrows in her quiver”. Past that in Legion, her main goal was to subjugate the rest of the “living” Val’kyr to prolong her ability to not end up in the Maw.
Her complete lack of sincere concern for them was then demonstrated blatantly when she accidentally said the quiet part out loud during her Mok’gora with Saurfang. And the Forsaken realized she never did actually care about any of them (with the possible exception of Nathanos).
Calia actually showed real concern for the Forsaken both before and after her death and raising as undead. If folks don’t understand that in combination with the fact that she is the the sole remaining legitimate ruler of Lorderan as a reason why the Forsaken are generally cool with her leadership… not sure what else there is to say.
?Now, personally I still can’t vibe with her. But as mentioned before, that’s because she was raised by the Naaru, and after Legion I dang sure don’t trust them or anything they’ve done any more.
I am going to slightly disagree and say she did “care” for them. But in the way you would care for a tool or a weapon. Not in the you care about them as a person and want what is best for them.
I don’t particularly care about any of the major Elemental Forces(even the Naaru, Zerde’s experience at Argus make him at least somewhat wary of full trust) and prefer if they all just stay out of our business. As for Calia, as far as we know she is herself and not some long term major plan of the Naaru, but we will see won’t we? Maybe she is the “bomb” Jaina should be worried about?
With weird shoehorning choices made along the way.
Her return in Legion was fine, no problems at all. I was interested to see where they’d go with her, especially when the BfA cinematic dropped and the Alliance were storming Lordaeron. With both her and Turalyon returning, it almost looked like the Alliance would be trying to reclaim Lordaeron, possibly even instigating the fight, with a whole Menethil right there that they could shove on the throne.
But then Before the Storm came out, and they made her Dayglow Undead. And Sylvanas will obviously be too evil (cuz Teldrassil) to continue on with the Horde by the end. And, like, we need a new forsaken character to lead them, and there’s an extra Menethil right here. So…
Uhg. I disliked how telegraphed it was. I disliked that they couldn’t even just make her a “normal” forsaken and have val’kyr raise her or something, as part of some convuluted and circuitous scheme by Sylvanas or something. Like, at least make her fit the part instead of some weird “lightforged special sauce undead.”
They did take the hint, surprisingly. Whatever her purpose was, she seems to have been sidelined. Granted, we’re stuck with Lilian Voss being a thinly veiled passive-aggressive commentary on that whole situation, but at least Faranell is there. Allegedly. Hopefully. Just shove more Faranell into the fore and I’ll be pretty happy with Forsaken stuff.
Eh. Faranell is fine and all, but the entire Desolate Council might’ve hit better if we hadn’t literally just introduced the Horde Council one earth year prior (a little over a year?) and promptly sidelined them for more Baine and Thrall.
Don’t you wish to have more of BfA’s breakout character, Baine??? Look at him, nobly sitting on a step in Oribos, letting the adults speak, waiting for his two minutes to shine when mawsworn attack!!
It is hard to really expect much from the Other Council when it’s Calia and Voss attending the big meetings, and the DC are still trying to figure out where to shove a flightmaster in the Ruins, or whatever they’ve been busy not doing.
There is a very small sliver of hope in me that Midnight will highlight how garbo-worthless-pointless-stupid the Council is and we’ll end up with a Warchief again. Would be cool if OG Thrall clawed his way back to the surface, but maybe that’s asking for too much.
The entire Desolate Council might’ve also hit better if it hadn’t been created in the same novel that retroactively torpedoed Forsaken society. And if the original Desolate Council hadn’t been made up of sad, fragile undead who wanted to slink off and die.