You say it’s about the first time thru the dungeon, but who is doing m+ for their first time in their right mind? It’s rude to the others. You should be on the same page.
It wasn’t good for anyone involved.
You release more content for lower tier players and the higher ones get bored because it’s irrelevant for them. You release content for higher tier players, and lower tier ones hate it because they’ll never see it while relevant.
Having multiple difficulties of everything (including dungeons) isn’t the most elegant solution, but it’s a hell of a lot better than the alternative, whether that content be irrelevant for all but a tiny % of the population, or utterly trivial as soon as it launched, like both Naxx’s have been.
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Thats was drained long long long before M+ and it makes 5 mans relevant
Well ya
Don’t do M+ problem solved
Thats not toxicity, having requirements isn’t toxic.
I don’t like something therefore it should be removed
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as long as its an esport never thats like saying when is arena going to be removed.
what can be removed is the player.its time to move on to another game then wow.
There is a pretty strong argument that too few players who enjoy the game bother to post (which is natural) and is the cause for why awful feedback gets taken into consideration.
so dungeons are supposed to be casual content where you’re carried by people who are more accomplished, but now that those people have harder difficulties and are no longer running the snoozefest versions, you’re mad?
ok.
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Just don’t do M+ if you don’t like it.
With 8.3 and Warforging / Titanforging going away M+ becomes a lot less important. Best gear comes from Raids again.
It’s a pretty dramatic departure from the game prior to M+, no question. There should definitely be “walls” of some kind to keep the timed/competitive mentality boxed into timed/competitive content. I have no idea what that might look like, though.
I wonder if there might be other solutions. One that comes to mind is aggressive trash respawns (alongside a good dungeon travel system) that make it so you can’t sit still for too long even if there’s no hard time limit. That might also help curb the popularity of convoluted skips.
Literally no one sees the dungeon for the first time in Mythic+ unless they’re a latecomer being hard carried by their friends or guild.
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Actually, all that has to be done is remove the formalized framework (in this case, Mythic+)… and the rest will take care of itself.
If they want to do speedruns, they’ll still do it. But there won’t be any extra incentive for them to do it beyond its own sake, which keeps their urges (and attitudes) largely under control.
They can still have their fun, they just have to make it. Without a framework over-emphasizing their approach, it doesn’t go to their heads either.
For one, you just created a complete nightmare for any group that wipes. Imagine having to reclear the entire trash because of one wipe.
Oh man, they should make this a seasonal affix.
Plus, aggressive trash respawn is a timer.
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That’s what the travel system would help with. Have 4-6 points to teleport to throughout the dungeon, with each being unlocked by beating a boss. That would give sufficient incentive to not wipe without making it impossible to clear back to where you were if you do wipe.
The issue with M+'s timer is less that it’s timer and more that it’s monolithic. Breaking it down into small per-pack respawn timers has a couple of benefits:
- It provides nicely paced small “wins” through the dungeon, making each run feel more like a marathon than a race, providing strong rolling performance feedback and helping new participants get hooked
- The consequence of “failing” a respawn timer is just that you have to kill another pack or in the absolute worse case scenario wiping and reclearing a section, which is a little more gentle and conducive to learning and improvement
Those two points would address major factors in the perpetuation of suckiness in low-mid pugged keys. When the “practice loop” involves the entirety of a dungeon, those who aren’t driven by being competitive will improve at a snail’s pace or not at all.
No, all it does is create a rush to beat the trash respawn, because then if your reser dies, the dungeon is over. It’s even more insane than a flat timer and creates much more stress. If you fail to beat the trash respawn, your reser dies and you have no way to res him or bring him to the group, the run is completely dead and over for good. Everyone ports out and starts over.
In trying to fix something that wasn’t broken, you’ve suggested a very anti-casual and insane mechanic.
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Sorry, but that is my definition of “the future.”
The game has to make money to continue being played.
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You ignored the waypoint system entirely. If you wipe 6/7 of the way through of a dungeon that has no time limit and your group has a waypoint to port to at 5/7 the way through, you’d ditch the group and start from scratch? In what world does that make any kind of sense?
Yes, any regression would result in leavers, I can garantee you that. Go play Classic and see what happens when “trash has respawned”. People just leave.
I don’t get what’s so wrong with an optional timer that gives you more loot or less depending on if you beat it or not.
They should keep m+ but change the name. Make it “ADD+”
Arguably a result of timed mentality infecting untimed content.
The game doesn’t do very well at making it optional and the community is even worse about it.
By “monetize”, I am largely referring to the fact they abuse it and use predatory practices to make horrifically large sums of money by misleading their customers with chances to win rather than a good experience for a regular fee.
The over-the-top competition aspect will probably die off quite handily once the law finally gets around to catching up with the game’s industry and they start cracking down on the predatory micro-transactions.
Probably won’t get rid of ALL of them, but it will get rid of the random loot boxes (and while WoW doesn’t really use paid lootboxes… the RNG-heavy design philosophy and reward structure is heavily based on them). Once those are out of the way… what’s the point of constantly pushing the competitive angle? The experience will matter more again, they’ll have to provide more actual content rather than iterating and modifying it to constantly give people more to do.
Do games have to make money to be successful? Yes.
Do they have to make it they way they’re going about it right now?
HELL NO!
No, it was the same back in 2004. Because people don’t feel like redoing what they just did with people who caused the run to be “soft reset”.
I’ve failed countless timer, got my loot, and people said “thanks for run!” and “sorry for key!”.
There is no community problem.