When the Shadowlands broke?

    As far as we know, the flow of souls was disrupted during the events of the Broken Shore, except Ursoc was able to reach Ardenweald as we have seen in the video dedicated to him. Is he an exception? Is it an intervention of Elune or is it related to the Emerald Dream or to his status as a Wild God?

    When Ursoc was slain in the Emerald Nightmare, souls were still being judged by the Arbiter.

This would mean that likewise Ysera died when the Arbiter was still sending people to Ardenweald.

As for when exactly the Shadowlands broke, supposedly we will be learning that soon:

    You mentioned this in a previous interview, but since when exactly has the flow of Azeroth’s souls been completely diverted to the Maw? You mentioned the Broken Shore. Would it be around that time? Was the flow of souls from other worlds diverted at the same time or was it long ago?

    To be clear, nothing has stopped the flow of souls from Azeroth or any other world from entering the Shadowlands. What has changed is that the Arbiter is no longer judging souls and sending them to their appropriate afterlives; instead, they are all going to the Maw.

    The exact moment this happened, along with some clues as to why, will be revealed in an in-game cinematic that you can view in Oribos after the expansion launches.


Neat find.

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Good find! So, the Arbiter system broke at some point after EN? Which means it didn’t happen until 7.1 at the earliest. So Trial of Valor with the defeat of Helya, or the defeat of Argus in Antorus would be the next two likely breaking points wouldn’t it? Especially since we now know that Vol’jin was the victim of the “stolen at moment of death” loophole that Arthas got hit with.

EDIT: Though, in hindsight, some of Veramathras’ dialogue suggests that the breaking point happened before Antorus. As he constantly discusses “her” and “death”.


The odder thing there then is Ysera was classified as a wild god, when she was a normal moral soul (particularly after being depowered in cataclysm). I would still bet that likely it was Elune’s intervention that got her classified that way.


The real question is whether or not the breaking corresponds to an event we already know about and maybe participated in, or if it is the result of something that happened off-screen in Legion.

EDIT: for clarity, I will not be happy if it is the latter.


It will be the latter because what that happened on-screen in Legion could it have even been?
Probably a result of the deal she made with Helya since we still don’t know the details of that.

when they tried to fit your mother in the flow of souls it broke


Huh? Where do they classify her as a Wild God? I thought they avoid talking about Ysera but use the example of Ursoc who goes to Ardenweald.

Ingame the fae people already state that Ysera was put into a pod directly and not through the Arbiter/Oribos.

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I thought it was elune who dumped Ysera into Ardenweald? The Winter Queen was rather surprised she was there, at least according to the earlier beta

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Hoping for a resolution to that. So far, it looks like it’s something that’s been dropped.

But I still say it’s Genn’s Smashing the Lanturn. Cause it’s all Sylvanas’ plan.

I’m very glad it was dropped, just because it’s 100% clear that it was part of the axed Sylvanas “find new ways to revive undead” arc that was scrapped in favor of the SL arc. It’s pretty clear that the Jailer business was created partway through BfA development, and any Sylvanas story from Legion was just working off her revival/immortality plans for her and the Forsaken.

I mean, not everything has to be retconned to fit the new story. It’s okay if the lamp was just to enslave Eyir for infinite val’kyr revivals (which it was when it was written, no ifs ands or buts). That can just be a plan that Genn foiled, and the story moves on.

Actually, I’m thinking it can be both without being a recon.
Sylvana’s plan WAS to enslave Eyir for her goals of progressing the Forsaken, but Genn shattered those plans.
So Sylvanas resorted to plan B.
All the While, her deal with Helya was still a vital role in the Events leading to the Breaking of the Veil. We don’t know what Helya’s gain was, after all. What was Sylvanas giving her in exchange for the Lamp and will it lead into events in Shadowlands.

It should also be noted that, if there was ever a moment where the Forsaken failed in their duties as her Bulwark Against the Infinite … Stormheim would be it. So, if you’re theory is correct, not only was her Plan A completely broken to pieces, those guarding her would be an easy outlet for blame. Tools who did not fulfill their purpose, allowing a long time enemy to just walk in and out to completely destroy her plans.

At that point, Plan B likely would be more appealing.


I agree with this assessment and I would even add that I think this makes it like 95% likely that Helya is the culprit because the cinematic is watchable in Oribos which means it is likely set in Oribos and I think Helya is a much more likely candidate for being able to do something to the Arbiter in person than anyone else.

I think Argus is an interesting idea, but I’m not sure how Blizzard makes that into a dramatic cinematic.

If it’s a cinematic, Helya makes the most sense at this point in my opinion.


Well, I’m pretty sure she shows up in the Shadowlands Intro in some capacity; and I think its more than a safe bet that both she and Sylvie’s Primes have some connection to the Jailor. So … yeah, you’re probably right. If the Arbiter system broke after Emerald Nightmare, and with Verimathras’ dialogue in Antorus … its gotta be Trial of Valor in 7.1 that broke this mess.

Of course it is … friggen Odyn is an arrogant screwup. It makes too much sense that his idiocy and his idiotic tasks would have a hand in breaking the land of the dead.

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Helya is brought up slightly in the interview as well:

    How does Helya “Hellheim”'s plan place itself in relation to the Shadowlands ?

    There are certain realms that touch upon the Shadowlands without being contained inside the plane of Death. Helya’s realm is one such place.

Frankly, I don’t think the breaking has anything to do with Helya, or anything that happened on Azeroth’s side for that matter.

Is the Night Elf soul that died in Teldrassil in Revendreth still a thing? Because that would throw all theories out of the window.

Nope, they fixed that. It’s now a Night Elf that died in the War of the Shifting Sands

Faedra Ambershade


Yeah, but she didn’t go through the Arbiter is what I was trying to say.

We know what Sylvanas got out of the deal, yes. But we don’t know what Helya got out of the deal. That’s what I mean by we don’t know the details, and Helya’s end of the bargain will probably be relevant in SL.