Then devs got lost on how they were making encounters since they needed to beat the addons and make encounters harder due to them.
So now we’re here with method/liquid level of difficulty out the gate every expac for heroic. Sure chalk it up to gear and learning the raid but honestly heroic shouldn’t be this daunting for most groups yet everyone’s solution right now is either get more gear or ask for a nerf on HP.
2 times one day my heroic prog guild I help with got raz down to 8% on our 2/4/9 group. Now even with a 5% HP nerf on heroic mid way through the season would be great tbh.
Rasz is a mechanics fight. 5% less HP probably won’t do anything.
And people die left and right to the simplest mechanics on this fight. It’s not some crazy out of this world ultra Mythic difficulty to dodge a frontal breath or get out of the way when a boss swipes over the platform. Or kick/dispel a personal add. Yet some people pretend like this fight is some crazy math that’s impossible to do for a “normal” player.
If some players would start working on their mistakes and reflect why bosses actually don’t die, instead of complaining about the evil Mythic raiders, they could achieve much more.
I’m referring mainly to heroic difficulty when it comes to tuning for mythic style of raiders. Quite a bit of HP and punishing dmg on most mechs. Also the funny double bites on raz glitching and dathea double slamming people is hilarious.
To your question of how I managed to clear what I did so far is simple… To everyone I am around it seems unholy dk is overtuned for raiding and is a top pick for most groups alongside a frost mage or WW monk, sub rogue too maybe. If I was a warrior it’d be a different deal. I’d have to work alot harder for my dmg compared to my unholy. Plus I have a small history in the legion mythic scene on tomb with another account I sold.
But back to the tuning… I’m expecting more nerfs in say maybe a month or 2 for heroic at the very least on raz and dathea or even brood. It only makes sense. OR people slap valor gear and farm clear raz with their newly acquired 415’s on all slots lol
You clearly haven’t made it to phase 3… I’ve already said with this group im with even with majority of pumpers it got down to 8% twice on last phase… We all died because floor becomes lava quickly. a total 5% nerf to her HP would give a huge chance to clear before that happens.
?
I already killed the boss two times. We managed to do so through slowly erasing minor and major mistakes and not just quit and cry about how unfair the boss is and how everything is allegedly tuned for the elite.
A somewhat clean execution of basic mechanics is key to killing the boss.
Then several of your DPS in the group were extremely underperforming or there were already some people dead.
And most people who complain about it being overtuned usually can’t even manage to get to P3.
Thats not true at all, but heroic was definitely overtuned on Raz initially. But they cant really adjust anything without accumulating the data they need to adjust the encounter. Which they have done.
Ive literally pugged 2 kills of heroic Raz.
Its really not that crazy after the adjustments theyve made.
A quick glance at your guild’s logs confirm my thoughts a bit. For me right now it’s not about “being right” or saying that your guild is bad. What I’m trying to say is that the boss fight isn’t overtuned or something that caters to the elite of the game. Your group just needs to get a better grip at mechanics and CD management.
You say that the boss would be dead if they’d nerf the HP a bit, because P3 is allegedly too much of a hard DPS race. Then I take a look at the logs of your guild and see that by the time P3 rolls around, several people are already dead, including a healer in both tries. Some of them died to basic mechanics, like getting 1-shot from Rasz when she flies over the platform. No nerf in the world would help you kill the boss when you don’t play mechanics. That’s something you have to work on - and you don’t have to be a WF raider to dodge a line.
Raz could def use a minor HP nerf, i think the mechanics are fun and interesting though. It is a bit annoying that saturdays are now M+ day to get people enough gear for raz since VOTI doesnt really drop enough gear for everyone. So far every week all tier pieces are the mystic, with only one non venerated dropping. Brood keeper has dropped double staff every time to the point that the guild is rotating in evokers just to get it.
I like the Rasza H difficulty, the only thing that weirds me out is that lots of guilds have kill like 2~3 Mythic bosses before being able to kill Rasza H…
Like, I don’t want to raid M (cause 20 man is BS) so is kinda weird to me that some groups are having the chance to get better loot (via M kills AND the weakly vault M reward) to help them kill Rasza H.
Meanwhile, a Heroic only guild with, say a 2/3/9 comp, is prog Rasza with less iLvL.
As I said before - that’s been the case for most of these guilds in every tier. I find it interesting that just now people are pointing that out and try to use it as an argument why tuning might be off. The first 2-3 bosses have usually been easier than the last Heroic fight in most raids because they’re mostly the same as Heroic with 1 major change that doesn’t really affect the difficulty that much. My guild always killed the first ~2 bosses before AotC.
Look at the first 3 bosses in VotI. Eranog? Just one additional line of adds. Council? Only important change is that the electricity debuff has to be removed manually and doesn’t disappear after a while. Terros? Just a set of debuff from time to time that has to be cleared.
400 ilv is more than enough to kill Raza and you can get that by just running m+, being able to kill the first 2-3 bosses in mythic before Raza has nothing to do with gear and is just mechanics.
There’s more than one way to look at tuning, though. There is tuning for boss HP, and then there is tuning for group skill level – which most notably would include not requiring everyone to hit every personal offensive/defensive mechanic and still allow for a group kill.
This is where I’ve seen the game get really harsh at the Heroic level over the last three xpacs. If you’re requiring the Heroic level to have no deaths in the group, or perfect mechanical competency until the inevitable late-fight DPS checks, they’re probably going to have to do those first 2-3 bosses on Mythic to swipe some higher gear, or run M+/valor, etc., to get whatever smidge of advantage they can get to get a group through while dealing with the inevitable shortcomings of a group for which this content was designed.
In this thread, we have people on both sides of the argument talking about how Heroic isn’t supposed to be tuned for Mythic/WF raiders. So why not start there and admit that Blizzard needs to go back to the tuning and/or design levels of Wrath-Legion where the fights were still challenging, but aimed at the appropriate audience?
Instead, they seem to be bent on using Heroic as a gateway to get more people into Mythic difficulty. I couldn’t care less about Mythic raiding at this stage of my life. The last time I did any end-tier content when it was current was MoP. Life/work/family makes even considering such a thing now an impossibility. I’d prefer that the content I feel I could complete not keep creeping up in difficulty or try to hand me off to a higher difficulty.
If people think AOTC is that easy, they probably are the ones needing to change the difficulty level they’re competing in, not ask that the skillset for which AOTC was originally designed suddenly have to improve their check/fail mechanics to such an extent.
The real problem is the performance gap between classes. Balancing is terrible right now.
The top DPS specs are doing 50%+ more damage than the bottom specs on this fight. With several DPS check mechanics, you really do need to “bring the class not the player” until she is on farm.
Sitting low performing players for progression is fine. Sitting low performing specs feels gross for Heroic.