Mid to late Wrath.
But TBC is when max level expansions started.
And if Vanilla leveling was a boring process, why wouldnt they put emphasis on the better parts?
The one thing that comes to mind was the opening of AQ.
Literally.
It’s not the same thing as the very dungeon and class design of the current WoW.
I’m open to be enlightened in which other aspects fit that competitive view, by design.
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When the second character was made and decided to make more gold or win more fights or get more mounts or…whatever than the first character.
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No, because that wasn’t the point being made lol
“WoW had better max level meaningful content!”
“what was it?”
“That doesnt matter, its irrelevant to the point!”
I literally never said that lol
Lol truth. I never saw Mounts being something competitive. At inception they were just for travel. There were a few unique hard to get ones, but it wasn’t competitive by design. Players made it competitive, because were Humans.
Mount-offs, this still blows my mind.
Sigh.
Ok.
You did not say those exact words in that combination. But you did talk about how WoW had other content to do besides max level dungeons/raids/etc. With the implication this content no longer exists.
Or maybe it does exist, its just not as good? We arent exactly sure what you mean.
This is why people ask for specifics. Not for some “gotcha”. But because many have no clue what you are even talking about.
I didn’t imply it no longer existed. I straight up acknowledged several times that the issue is that the content that exists today is no longer good lol
If you’re not exactly sure what I mean, that’s not my problem because I’ve made it very clear what I mean lol
Raiding in its entirety. Blizzard went out of the way to record world-firsts in a race-style format, which actively encouraged players to compete for raiding slots on a lot of servers.
AQ gates
Mob Density being scarce which was done on purpose mind you
The entire concept of rare farming
PvP was a large aspect, 100% I’m not denying that. Laddering in a point-based tier system inherently provided competition, but the PvE content was also designed by a group of hard-core raiders from EQ. They wanted competition from the get-go.
Ok.
Can you give me a more specific example of what you mean?
What the “good” content was?
You’re free to read the several other things I’ve stated that made content good lol. I’m not going to repeat myself and fall into a spiral of you picking apart my words because you’re incapable of actually addressing the argument
So that is a “no”
Got it.
I am attempting to address the argument by asking for clarification. Your point is so vague, I cant adequately address it based on what you have said. And I do not want to imply anything else and be wrong going forward.
And I already clarified lol. The comments haven’t been deleted. You’re free to scroll up and read it again lol
Would you mind pointing me at a specific post?
Its a 235 post thread at this point. You can easily find the specific post you made to quote yourself, so that I can be on the same page.
Otherwise, I may read the wrong post.
People who have always been competitive gamers have never had anything to do with people who weren’t and aren’t. Thus, it’s easy for them to claim that is all that the only purpose of the game has been competition. These are the players who make the demonstrably false claim that “during vanilla, everybody raided”. And even if they grudgingly tolerate people who play differently and accept on some level that content is provided for those people, so long as it is meaningless and unrewarding, they still think anyone who does not play wow competitively is doing life wrong and should be stopped.
Sure, why not lol
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That’s not the point. BC had world objectives and content alongside the leveling process. And rep grinding had actual rewards instead of cosmetics or gear that was only relevant for 2 weeks like now. Now, the scaling is so horrible that there’s no reason to farm rep. They know this and they find ways to force it(flying, prerequisite for new zones).
???
The old world didn’t become boring until they screwed everything up with scaling and everything was dead in one hit and nothing but an obstacle to endgame. The cata overhaul is when it started. And it likely was a result of the mantra I brought up. They did a massive overhaul to the stats, the stat weights became non-linear, the strange scaling from 81-85, and ilvl scaling from old to new. And people called it all irrelevant because “the game doesn’t start until cap.” A self-fulfilling prophecy.
When one plays classic even today, that addictive feeling is still there. The one that made hours melt away while you’re saying, “I should log off but I need to do X first.” It is non-existent in retail. Even endgame is log on, do X, get bored, log off.
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I don’t inherently disagree with you are far as the game design choices made.
I will say I do enjoy SoD leveling for example, a lot more than retail.
But you can’t ignore the good examples of this system either.
PvP has objectively always been competitive. you killed things, you ranked up. You continue to rank up until you reach the highest in the ladder. At which point you needed to keep yourself at the highest rung to hold on.
World-first races for raiding was a concept started by the original blizzard devs, not the players, in vanilla.
Also AQ is a good example of this. The opening segment was intentionally limited as a way to promote a “reach the finish first”
I’m not saying that the game has never had other non-competitive qualities, but saying they were a minor part of the game is just weird.
PvP was half of the game, for some people it was the entire game.
Raiding was a huge piece of what made WoW popular in the first place.