When did WOW become not "Classic" anymore?

So, at what point did this happen? After Vanilla, TBC, WOTLK? Was it an expansion, or a patch that determined the end of “Classic” WOW? Or does everyone have their own opinion about when it all changed?

This being said, I have seen a lot of conversations and posts about what used to be and what needs to be, in order for WOW to go back to Classic.

Now, this being purely my own opinion, and I am ONLY speaking for myself, but in order for Classic WOW to be what it was in those days, cross realm can’t exist what so ever in any form at any time. No corss realm BG’s, Groups, Raids, NOTHING. If it does, this will only lead to BFA all over again and their is no point in making Classic WOW ever, unless they ONLY release the Vanilla part of the game. If they release more content/expansions after Vanilla, like TBC or WOTLK, Blizzard should never introduce any type of cross realm in order to keep to the true Classic feel. The community and familiarity on both sides were extremely important.

WoW ended right before the lich king got replaced
as for what you meant, though, Classic ended when welfare epics became a thing EDIT: oh right, flying; it ended when world PvP ended, thanks Kithkaid

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Flying and dungeon finder. The latter especially just gutted the world and was the final nail in the coffin for WPvP. Once players no longer had to go out into the world to do things it ceased to be an MMO and became more like an instanced multiplayer game.

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Yes, I agree with you.

The first major patch during vanilla.

Vanilla was not a static experience.

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WotLK introduced a great deal of concepts that softened the Classic feel–at the time, many of those changes were popular, but over time they’ve become recognized as a major contributor to the game’s transformation from Classic to Modern. Here’s a short list of some of those things:

1.) Raid difficulties. It started with Naxxramas, giving guilds the option to do either 10 man or 25 man versions of the same content. By the time Icecrown came out, that was extended further to there being a “Heroic” difficulty mode in addition to the standard. It divided the content into multiple forms with different mechanics. Some people view this as having “watered down” the experience of raiding, making it simultaneously more accessible but less meaningful.

2.) Dungeon Finder. This one is a gigantic contributor. It completely removed the need to socialize in order to find and/or keep new group members if/when one leaves, or when starting the group to begin with. It turned dungeons from an event to a treadmill–no longer did you organize and plan, then travel to your destination. Dungeon Finder threw you into a queue, automatically got you a tank, healer, and 3 DPS, then teleported you directly to the dungeon. If somebody left, they were automatically replaced within minutes. It made the game, again, more accessible but less meaningful.

3.) Badges of Justice/Triumph/Frost/etc. These existed to some extent in Burning Crusade, but they were only available from Heroics. WotLK softened the difficulty of Heroics without removing the potency of the gear rewards. Furthermore, as new raid content released, the badges became “stronger” and were capable of purchasing raid-level gear as a reward for completing early-expansion content that hadn’t gotten any harder. It took time to earn enough badges, but it did not take anything more than doing heroics.

4.) Achievements. Classic (and TBC) were about discovering and earning new rewards for the sake of having the rewards. WotLK took that a step further and assigned achievements to those rewards as well. Now, players were given a literal book of things that could be done for a “reward” of 10 achievement points and an entry in your achievement journal. No longer was World of Warcraft a free-form adventure where you pursued the things that mattered to you–with the addition of achievements, it became a glorified to-do list, literally checking off boxes as you churned through content arbitrarily deemed “achievement worthy.” It added longevity to the game, but damaged its soul.

5.) Death Knights. While I love Death Knights and I don’t think it’s a bad thing to add new classes to an MMO, it was the first time Blizzard experimented with “hero classes.” Death Knights were ridiculously powerful at first. They started at 55 (58 by the end of the intro), every spec could either tank or DPS, and (at least in my guild) they obliterated the DPS charts (often by literally using the ability “Obliterate”.) Like I said, it’s not a bad thing, but ever since DKs were added, the concept of a powerful fighter/self-healing class has permeated the game’s design. Almost every class in BfA has some kind of similarity to the playstyle of WotLK Death Knights.

6.) Profession Changes. These are smaller, but significant. For example, from patch 3.0.8: "Mining veins and deposits no longer require multiple hits to receive all the ore. Players will receive around the same amount of ore, stone, and gems they would have received from multiple hits. " Basically, the entire gathering process was streamlined. No longer did you pick up ore one at a time, but as a big bunch with one cast time. Did it make the game “better?” Yes, it did. But it changed it from the slow pace of classic to the “get as much as possible as quickly as possible” atmosphere we see today. Nowadays, there isn’t even competition for ore/herb nodes–everybody gets their own version of each spawn, so there is a practically limitless supply of gathering materials out in the world. Back in Classic, such things were restricted by spawn rates.

There are more things, surely ones I’m forgetting, but that’s a basic run-down of what I think most impacted the game to turn it from “Classic” into “Modern,” or “what it is now.”

I don’t dislike modern. I still play it. I’m logged into my Demon Hunter in another window in the background right now, as I type this. I just miss some of the experiences of Vanilla, and I want to go back to that.

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I think it’s subjective; no one will have the same answer. I only know the beginning of the end, and, the end, for me.

The beginning of the end of classic was the introduction of bgs. It’s the first steps taken in dividing up the world. Making you go into an instance separate from the overall world to play with other characters. World PvP is know for being a thing that was a big part of classic, and, if it wasn’t for bgs, PvP would still be a world (of Warcraft) wide thing.

The end of classic was TBC, that’s when the game changed into something else. It’s when I stopped playing, until recently having come back. Having another world, Outland, to explore, that’s when players became truly divided up. And the feel of the game changed, with pretty races added to the Horde, and space goats, for Alliance. It’s when the game stopped feeling like a game set in a LOTR fairytale setting, and had its Warhammer aspect go all “40K”.

Just wasn’t the same after that.

That’s my two cents.

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I consider Classic to be Vanilla WoW and TBC for the most part, they had a similar design philosophy despite many changes that were made [25 mans, tons of welfare epics etc]. WOTLK is the cut off too me, i played a prot Warrior for most of TBC and when Blizzard caved and gave all of the tanks easy mode AoE tanking like what Paladins had [which just dumbed down PVE at the same time], that alone was enough of a change to break it from what Classic was. I know TBC had extremely viable Prot Paladins but there were still drawbacks to them and most of the content was not at all designed around AoE tanks, except perhaps the trash mob waves at Hyjal.

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Thanks for the feed back.

So do you want launch or 1.12?

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I’ll take whatever I can get. In a perfect world with unlimited resources I’d love to see a real-time progression from 1.0 to 1.12, but that’s not possible for a variety of reasons. I’m content with 1.12, though there are elements from previous patches that I’d prefer (most specifically, pre-1.12 Alterac Valley would be best).

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I agree with pre-1.12 AV. And bring back the monster that used to one shot all the rezzers at Snow Fall GY back in the day. I think his name was Korrak the Bloodrager.

Classic WoW ended with LFD/LFR and welfare gear became a thing.

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2.0.1 was technically the end of Classic.

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That was/is another huge problem with WoW in general now, i think that came out in Cata or late Wrath. I played from day 1 and quit shortly before Wrath came out, when i subbed again LFD/LFR was in game and that alone seemed to have done the biggest damage to the game’s community.

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I disagree. I think battlegrounds were a great addition and made PvP more fun. I always felt SS/TM battles with boring; without any stakes there didn’t seem much purpose to me. I’m sure the lack of stakes made for the purest PvP experience and people liked it, but I personally didn’t.

My favorite PvP moments were the spontaneous skirmishes that occurred out in the world, especially if it was over something like some quest mobs or resources. I had a rivalry with an undead rogue who I’d often see picking my flowers when I was out herbing. We’d kill and camp each other fighting over a Dreamfoil spawn, it was really intense for what it was.

I also had a lot of fun in battlegrounds. Just messing around in AV or avoiding mine duty in AB; me and a bunch of guildmates would PvP after finishing up raids for the evening. I didn’t really care about my PvP rank, but just having an objective for fight for made PvP much more fun.

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Several changes.
Flying - burning crusade
Heirlooms - started in wrath
Aoe tank and spank dungeons - started in wrath
Badges/welfare epics (started in bc, used for a few catch up pieces, made standard practice in wrath).
homogenization - started in wrath
Multiple raid sizes/difficulties - started in wrath
LFD - started in wrath

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Bgs, for me, were a step in the wrong direction. Stakes? Yes, I agree, they were needed. And that’s what the honor system did. And, if you remember, the honor system came out before bgs did. That period of time after the honor system and before bgs was the pinnacle of WoW for me.

My idea: the game should have become more of an RTS; leading forces from one capital to another, to conquer the enemy faction. In a perfect WoW, I would have liked to have seen raids, not just for instances, but for Orgrimmar or Stormwind. But, the game never went down that road, and instead with bgs, we had this separate world that mecca-ed all pvpers, and its what led to the abandonment of the open world at large.

Think about it like this, xpac after xpac, Blizzard has tried and failed to make open world PvP meaningful again. And bring life back to Azaroth. BFA is just another attempt.

The problem is, not everyone wants to PvP, and I get that. But, maybe this game should have taken two separate routes. One for PvP. And another for PvE.

My impression: Blizzard has always coward out of making this game reach its full potential. Players take this game too seriously. And, seeing zones invaded and conquered would have been too much for some. Too much of a game changer.

My perspective: it’s just a freakin’ game! Have fun. And fun requires real stakes being implemented. And, Bgs were not it.

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TBC.

Flying.

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Classic and Vanilla was always interchangeable terms for me before this, so I considered Classic WoW to have ended with the release of the 2.0.1 patch when TBC began.

Cata also felt like a turning point. TBC and WotLK were both different from Vanilla, but it felt like even if the game’s design philosophies changed along the way(all specs being competitive, dungeons not needing as much CC, etc) they were mostly trying to add new things to the existing game.

Cata turned that around and it was when Blizzard decided it was a good idea to completely overhaul major systems in the game.

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