I just came back from a long hiatus from retail this season, and I gotta say rogue does feel more fluid than it did in DF. I like the idea of super charged combo points, shadow blades is good, finishers (evis/rup) are feeling insane, having 3 symbols is cool. But holy moly, after playing ret it is much more superiorly designed than rogue it’s not even funny. You could almost directly compare the 2 classes its funny. Every 30 seconds they have a “dance” go where they hoj/wake and get wings; then from there they just generate and finisher spam. Then every 1 minute they get a “blades” go with reckoning and toll. As Todd Howard said, it just works.
BUT… Doing anything outside of shadow dance feels like mental agony. Outside of rupture you kinda just flop around like a fish, and afk for the next go. If someone trinkets, go is over. They pop a cd, go is over… It feels like we’re trying to go back to traditional sub rogue? At least the current iteration draws inspiration from it, but the current talent tree just doesn’t help it lol.
I only play sub rogue in pvp, but I wouldn’t even bother trying the other 2 specs since they can’t even force trinket/cds in opener. I can only see it being enjoyable with a pocket healer or something, and even then burst damage is high so nothing is stopping the enemy team from stunning you and killing/forcing all your cds. I haven’t enjoyed playing outlaw since WoD, and sin since bfa. They’re just horridly designed, and nowhere near as consistent as sub rogue.
Anyways, enough doom and gloom. If blizzard were to do some sort of changes, what would you want to see?
2 Likes
Make backstab not hit like a wet noodle for start
7 Likes
One thought I had was make Shadow Dance on a timed meter and drain on activation so I could turn it off when I wouldn’t need it. Or if not a timed meter, a certain number of casts? Idk.
I have to replay sub again to give anything super constructive.
2 Likes
Mutilate and Sinister Strike hit for wet noodles too.
5 Likes
People are allergic to generator dmg, and/or like being pigeonholed into dance windows. I wish it was just FW windows instead, making re’s much stronger. This would create more pseudo-dance goes, something the spec needs. This was how the spec played in mop/wod and it felt clean. It makes offensive vanishing viable, but makes using it defensively still an option; you don’t need to always rush a go. Just sit in stealth, wait for drs and go again. ABC 123 sub rogue.
To do this 2 things would need to happen
- You can no longer proc FW out of stealth, and GIGA BUFF IT. At least in pvp
- Dance can no longer be reduced via cdr, that or nerf it by half or something. This too can also be a pvp only change.
I don’t pve so I’m not sure if this would work for their playstyle. But the numbers can easily be done with pvp tuning.
1 Like
This is incredibly sound for an energy class.
Bring back CDR and nerf it to 50%. Unnerf thief bargain. Buff deepening shadow to 1s per combopoint. Reduce all ability cost energy by half. Buff vanish to 2s instead of 1.5s. I can go for day but Blizzard meant to nerf Rogue this expansion so nothing gonna happen. They nerf us hard AND also buff other class defensive like shaman bulwalk totem hunter double wall
Plus toxic root. Ret unkillable without fighting for 5min. Dont even think about mage if they good. You cant catch them.
1 Like
Sounds like old Demo Meta and to lesser extent, old Shadow Voidform.
Honestly, pretty great idea. Would likely need a bit more work than just slapping a “shadow dance bar” under the energy bar and calling it a day. But this is a great starting point for an eventual Sub rework.
Really? Why you want to hate on wet noodles like that. 
2 Likes
I have received many concussions from wet noodles. Wet noodles near the ocean or pools are dangerous.
1 Like