The new water graphics, shadows, increased nameplate view distance, and projected textures should be removed.
Arguments and counter-arguments:
"Resolution changes and colorblind mode aren't Vanilla either. The "no changes" advocates want those removed too! The "no changes" advocates are so unreasonable!"
The industry standard for monitors has changed from a 4:3 format to a 16:9 format. It doesn't change the art style. Yes, it does change the game in the sense that the new field of view and resolution change will make the game more visible. It's true that it's not vanilla, but there is no great change other than not having to turn your camera angle as often. Nobody is seriously advocating against this.
The colorblind shouldn't be hindered by color. Nobody is seriously advocating against this.
"The new water graphics look better to me."
It doesn't match the 2004 art style. Stylistically, it's not historic. Are we preserving history or rewriting it? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iD2U9PplwaA
"You can just turn on enemy nameplates and you can see the big red text above their head so you can still see them if they are underwater!"
In vanilla, you can't see enemy nameplates until you are about 10 yards from your target. It's harder to see the red text above an enemy player if it's submerged under vanilla water graphics and it's even harder to see at night time. This changes how hide-and-seek interactions happen in PvP. I remember vividly being at the Barrens, during night time, and jumping into a water pool of aggressive turtles that I couldn't see until I went under the water's surface. Not every player has nameplates turned on.
"Just don't be a jerk and the automated player reporting system won't harm anybody."
Jerks can do the reporting too. People who aren't jerks get reported. Should players truly have the power to disconnect a player(forced re-login) and silence that player for several hours? No, of course not. In vanilla, you compete for mobs and world bosses, you compete to be realm first in raids, you compete for PvP ranks, you compete to be in groups/raids/guilds, you compete for gathering nodes, and you even compete in trade chat by advertising your goods and services. All the above may be negatively impacted by abusing right click player report. You need in-game communication for all of the above. Spam is solved by /ignore and addons. Bad language is solved by a profanity filter, /ignore, and addons.
Grieving is vanilla. Some players want to be infamous instead of famous. It adds flavor to the server's community. It adds another layer of good vs evil in each faction. If everybody is forced to think and act the same, then it makes interactions stale and boring. It's okay to dislike fellow and opposing players! It's okay for them to dislike you!
The problem is that most of current BfA reporting system is automated. The punishments shouldn't be automatically enforced because there are in-game and out-of-game(addons) solutions already and because it could be easily abused by single player with 10 accounts or a group of friends/lemmings. Only a Blizzard employee should enforce a global squelch and/or the ban hammer. Reporting should only streamline the issue to those employees of Blizzard who handle these reports.
"This never happens to me in retail. It won't affect you in Classic."
Classic has more communication in it than retail. A lot of this is because of the competition for many things that I pointed out above. This greatly increases the chances of being reported. If you get globally squelched in retail, you can still LFR/LFG/BG. If you are silenced in Classic, you can't find a group for dungeons, can't ask for an invite to the raid, can't say that you need help at stables, can't ask for help on quest, and so on. The world doesn't revolve around you. It shouldn't revolve around anybody. Just because it doesn't happen to you or your circle of friends, doesn't mean it doesn't happen to anybody.
"The new shadows are prettier. You can just choose which one you want."
It still changes the art style as well as how objects create shadows. New shadows make certain areas/objects darker as well. It doesn't match the 2004 art style. Stylistically, it's not historic. Are we preserving history or rewriting it?https://youtu.be/tdr5EbZR4Pk?t=534
"Projected textures are not worth talking about."
It should be a bigger issue. This is a change most people don't understand. Please check out what projected textures are here: https://youtu.be/PUcwXqabc7A?t=388
It changes, both positively and negatively, how interactions work with things like a hunter's volley ability and a mage's blizzard spell. In PvP, knowing the exact perimeter of your opponent's spell gives you an advantage in avoiding it as opposed to making an educated or uneducated guess to where the perimeter ends. Your opponent already knows the perimeter because one appears for them when they are choosing a target to aim their AoE spell/ability. This also makes kiting mobs easier for those who use these AoE spells because you have a permanent visual marker to pull mobs into. It's not vanilla. It doesn't match the 2004 art style. Stylistically, it's not historic. Are we preserving history or rewriting it?
"Nobody is talking about increased nameplate view distance. It's a a non-issue."
It seems like the distance nameplates could be seen is around 10 yards in vanilla, but it has been increased in the Classic demo to be at least double that distance. It changes how easily somebody can be seen through objects/textures/water. It's obvious how this changes the game in both PvE and PvP. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbIwFq3DX74
Your entire post failed when you called people "retail trolls/newbies".
Just because someone has a differing opinion than yours, doesn't mean you have to insult them and belittle them. Why can't we have a discussion without people who think their way is the only way, mocking people and calling names?
Just because someone has a differing opinion than yours, doesn't mean you have to insult them and belittle them. Why can't we have a discussion without people who think their way is the only way, mocking people and calling names?
fixed, thanks.10/28/2018 12:58 PMPosted by ShendalarYour entire post failed when you called people "retail trolls/newbies".
Just because someone has a differing opinion than yours, doesn't mean you have to insult them and belittle them. Why can't we have a discussion without people who think their way is the only way, mocking people and calling names?
Edit: People are still "liking" your comment about some words that don't exist anymore... sigh. I thought the singular insult was very mild. Sheesh. Burn me at the stake will ya? Each second you don't edit your post, the furthur you continue to belittle this thread. I guess you must really enjoy the likes you are accumulating over the importance of this discussion. I'll admit I didn't proof-read that one sentence because I was more focused on proofing/explaining, in detail, the arguments so that they would make sense to a broader audience. Only 3-5 people max saw the one tiny insult. That means any likes beyond that are band-wagoners who never read the first post. Oh, the irony!
Water ambushing wasn't a thing until 2018.
10/28/2018 12:59 PMPosted by Acronym10/28/2018 12:58 PMPosted by ShendalarYour entire post failed when you called people "retail trolls/newbies".
Just because someone has a differing opinion than yours, doesn't mean you have to insult them and belittle them. Why can't we have a discussion without people who think their way is the only way, mocking people and calling names?
fixed, thanks.
I'm impressed that you fixed that and didn't go all ham about it; I respect that greatly.
10/28/2018 12:58 PMPosted by ShendalarYour entire post failed when you called people "retail trolls/newbies".
Just because someone has a differing opinion than yours, doesn't mean you have to insult them and belittle them. Why can't we have a discussion without people who think their way is the only way, mocking people and calling names?
Wrong.
His entire post goes without saying to point of wondering why state the obvious, without the context of retail trolls/newbies the entire post has no context.
What amazes me is the speed that people thumbs you up considering I was spamming refresh to change the first thing that somebody would nitpick to derail the thread.<span class="truncated">...</span>I'm impressed that you fixed that and didn't go all ham about it; I respect that greatly.
fixed, thanks.
10/28/2018 12:58 PMPosted by Shendalar
Just because someone has a differing opinion than yours, doesn't mean you have to insult them and belittle them. Why can't we have a discussion without people who think their way is the only way, mocking people and calling names?
Because, some people are stupid enough to put out UNQUALIFIED opinions.
If you haven't experienced the game the way it was intended you have NO REFERENCE point to state how it compares to the demo.
Acting as if are qualified aka have experience, is the very definition of Trolling.
10/28/2018 12:53 PMPosted by Acronymhttps://i.imgur.com/dYMOFMo.jpg
It doesn't match the 2004 art style. Stylistically, it's not historic. Are we preserving history or rewriting it? I'd like a toggle. I like the original art style.
That comparison is intellectually dishonest. Those screenshots were all taken at different parts of the day/night cycle.
Compare the Northshire Abbey screenshots to one I took last night on BfA:
https://i.imgur.com/qjDIkAq.png
it looks pretty good to me so far, they seem to have the darker nights in and the art style is pretty much on point ?
https://imgur.com/a/xwIFtSP
https://imgur.com/a/xwIFtSP
10/28/2018 01:06 PMPosted by Brutain10/28/2018 12:58 PMPosted by Shendalar
Just because someone has a differing opinion than yours, doesn't mean you have to insult them and belittle them. Why can't we have a discussion without people who think their way is the only way, mocking people and calling names?
Because, some people are stupid enough to put out UNQUALIFIED opinions.
If you haven't experienced the game the way it was intended you have NO REFERENCE point to state how it compares to the demo.
Acting as if are qualified aka have experience, is the very definition of Trolling.
The problem is these blanket statements. Look around these forums and you have people calling everyone names... Newbs, trolls, braindead, morons, etc...
How does that help anyone? How does calling someone a name and insulting and belittling them, and then trying to make a point to them work? It doesn't.
On top of that - there are plenty of people who are not trolling and who are not 'retail newbs' who are fine with many of the changes being listed; they don't see it as a threat to the core experience of the game. There is this assumption that if someone doesn't agree with you that they're completely wrong and don't know what they're talking about (from both sides); which is not conducive to a healthy, meaningful argument or discussion.
So the issue here is that instead of making respectful, thoughtful counter-arguments to try to point out what you believe in - people are throwing in needless insults at people and only further creating rifts, instead of pulling people in and trying to engage them.
They might be, would like to see more proof to determine.10/28/2018 01:10 PMPosted by Galdorhttps://i.imgur.com/dYMOFMo.jpg
It doesn't match the 2004 art style. Stylistically, it's not historic. Are we preserving history or rewriting it? I'd like a toggle. I like the original art style.
That comparison is intellectually dishonest. Those screenshots were all taken at different parts of the day/night cycle.
Compare the Northshire Abbey screenshots to one I took last night on BfA:
https://i.imgur.com/qjDIkAq.png
10/28/2018 01:13 PMPosted by Acronym10/28/2018 01:10 PMPosted by Galdor...
That comparison is intellectually dishonest. Those screenshots were all taken at different parts of the day/night cycle.
Compare the Northshire Abbey screenshots to one I took last night on BfA:
https://i.imgur.com/qjDIkAq.png
They might be, would like to see more proof to determine.
10/28/2018 01:11 PMPosted by Elackit looks pretty good to me so far, they seem to have the darker nights in and the art stle is pretty much on point ?
https://imgur.com/a/xwIFtSP
Thanks for this! Will update the OP!10/28/2018 01:17 PMPosted by Galdor<span class="truncated">...</span>
They might be, would like to see more proof to determine.it looks pretty good to me so far, they seem to have the darker nights in and the art stle is pretty much on point ?
https://imgur.com/a/xwIFtSP
10/28/2018 01:00 PMPosted by RistraWater ambushing wasn't a thing until 2018.
Agreed.
World PvP was like 80% of my game in vanilla. I don't remember hiding in water ever working. Vanilla water was still pretty transparent.
In daytime sure, night time is a different matter. Would like to see a screenshot proof of updated water vs old water at night time with a player in the water with nameplates turned off.10/28/2018 01:18 PMPosted by Kilda10/28/2018 01:00 PMPosted by RistraWater ambushing wasn't a thing until 2018.
Agreed.
World PvP was like 80% of my game in vanilla. I don't remember hiding in water ever working. Vanilla water was still pretty transparent.
How about, no.10/28/2018 12:53 PMPosted by AcronymThe new water graphics, shadows, increased nameplate view distance, and projected textures should be removed.
10/28/2018 01:12 PMPosted by Shendalar10/28/2018 01:06 PMPosted by Brutain...
Because, some people are stupid enough to put out UNQUALIFIED opinions.
If you haven't experienced the game the way it was intended you have NO REFERENCE point to state how it compares to the demo.
Acting as if are qualified aka have experience, is the very definition of Trolling.
The problem is these blanket statements. Look around these forums and you have people calling everyone names... Newbs, trolls, braindead, morons, etc...
How does that help anyone? How does calling someone a name and insulting and belittling them, and then trying to make a point to them work? It doesn't.
On top of that - there are plenty of people who are not trolling and who are not 'retail newbs' who are fine with many of the changes being listed; they don't see it as a threat to the core experience of the game. There is this assumption that if someone doesn't agree with you that they're completely wrong and don't know what they're talking about (from both sides); which is not conducive to a healthy, meaningful argument or discussion.
So the issue here is that instead of making respectful, thoughtful counter-arguments to try to point out what you believe in - people are throwing in needless insults at people and only further creating rifts, instead of pulling people in and trying to engage them.
Shush, Troll.
The only thing I have a real problem with is the water. The shadows and foliage don't dramatically change the look of the game. They just make it a little more dense. The foliage, for example, doesn't use different textures or plant models. It's just...more of what already exists. Whereas the water is a completely different style and doesn't fit in with the rest of the world.
Also, lava doesn't look as good either.
Old lava: https://i.imgur.com/Pm3EXz2.jpg
New lava: https://i.imgur.com/4Qp3Z61.jpg
Old just fits the WoW style better.
Also, lava doesn't look as good either.
Old lava: https://i.imgur.com/Pm3EXz2.jpg
New lava: https://i.imgur.com/4Qp3Z61.jpg
Old just fits the WoW style better.
I played on a PvP all the way through TBC. I tried hiding in the water to avoid skulls.10/28/2018 01:18 PMPosted by Kilda10/28/2018 01:00 PMPosted by RistraWater ambushing wasn't a thing until 2018.
Agreed.
World PvP was like 80% of my game in vanilla. I don't remember hiding in water ever working. Vanilla water was still pretty transparent.
Worked as well as hiding behind a tree or in a bush. As in, never worked.
Too many horde are used to looking for gnomes I guess.