It would be fair to say spamming poly until the enemy is out of CC breakers isn’t anymore complex than Ret/War setup.
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I wasn’t aware that Rogues could cast Poly. Don’t blame us for mage shenanigans.
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Honestly with the way sub is designed, I would go as far as to say that cheap shot can be nearly just as flexible as a mage spamming polymorph considering how accessible stealth based abilities are for the spec atm.
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This thread tells me many things. Mostly classes like warrior with, intervene, banner, leap, charge, stormbolt, fearbomb, disarm, duel, spell reflect, charge spam talent is frustrated classes like rogue/mage had to be upgraded to do obnoxious amounts of dmg in short windows due to obnoxious amounts of utility given to other classes.
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RM has always been an epitome of this idea. Doing some ridiculous dmg in short windows supplemented with their overwhelming cc chains is what defined RM since TBC.
Also warrior and spriest are the only other classes outside of mage and rogue with a very loaded kit and have above average survivability. I think we pretty much need to bring every other class on par with these 2 in order to effectively deem rog/mage as a tolerable comp.
As for rogue/mage, I think the problem isn’t with their damage. Its primarily with certain abilities that are designed to give them leeway without punishing them even if used improperly because there’s always a button or 2 that’s readily available to press in order to get them out of sticky situations regardless of meaningful outplays from opposing teams.
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The class a person post on doesn’t give you grounds to ignore a valid point just because you don’t know how to counter argue. Ret/war is dumb nobody will question that, but rmp is just as dumb and has been dumb for years being one of the most free comps in the games with no real change in ages.
The fact is rmp is miserable to face into and even the comps that “counter” it hate facing it. They can fail over and over again and it just doesn’t matter because blizz constantly gives the spec training wheels for easy success.
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You’ve far missed the point and your take is fried as hell. They’ve had to nerf both mages and rogues several times now, and could still nerf them several more times and the comp will still be s+++ tier. It’s literally got everything and has the easiest time doing anything in this game, don’t pretend that it’s only a recent thing because the big bad warriors are overtuned.
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I think sub rogues identity just got lost along the way. Originally it was a class with cc. But then they got high damage. So now damage and cc. But they were falling over so then they gave them defensives and run away tactics 0.0. The worst part of sub rogues is every time they get stealth you have to trade. But what can you do once you are out of trinket or a defensive working in stuns
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I think you are supposed to deny them running away…i mean you have ring of peace, incap leg sweep, pets, and the best mobility in the game.
Oh, and Bramot pointed out to me that last AWC on EU and method black played RMD at the last Blizzcon.
Personally I still stand by that not being relevant because the live ladder is quite a bit different than competitors.
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When you put it that way you can do anything. The fact is burning your precious stops against rmp that are 100% vital to surviving to keep a rogue from restealthing when he will restealth later anyway just doesn’t do anything. The biggest issue with rmp is every target sucks to go and every target can slip away for free because of how much peeling the comp can do.
No shoot you are supposed to stop them. But they have so many tools for a easy restealth
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My point is rogue on his own isn’t that busted, when you pair him up with a mage is when the problems start. Its frustrating to at least me as a rogue since the main person i pvp with only plays ret paladin. I pvp with him because he is a real life friend but wish the kits were a bit better balanced so there was more comp diversity. A lot of people that complain in this thread give me the impression of a warrior who gets upset that the rogue isn’t chosing to stay and fight him toe to toe which the rogue would literally stand no chance of winning. Rogues can have some pretty decent burst damage but no sustained damage and are basically glass
I think in a way we are saying the same point. Relying on restealths and one shots is not a good design. And with mages combined with rogues it’s punishing. Your comp for example is less punishing bc your partner. But if we gave you more damage or more ways to run away from your comp. Our rm overlords would also benefit. Up the sustain damage but you have to nerf the burst damage out of stealth. But also your point of rogue not feeling good with a Ret so they arnt a problem is kinda a moot point because they are really good with a mage
Did a f’ing RM player just post this? Holy f you’re beyond help
The stealth conduit only makes it easier, before they had to at least wait for dots to fall off.
Rmx is literally a ret/War cleave.
When was the last tourney?
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I preferred Wrath Sub rogue, honestly. It felt rewarding, and you had to play with a teammate who could pump damage, because we all know Sub wasn’t pumping damage. You also couldn’t just run away all the time. I doubt we will ever see such an iteration of Sub again, at least until Wrath Classic.
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We prefer to go by “Arms War-Lite” these days actually
Edit: You forgot our 30% wall every 15 seconds
In case you don’t know ret/rogue is a pretty valid comp nobody plays it because both specs have other comp options that are better. But it’s still very good.
But anyway, I get your point I just don’t really agree with it. Outlaw and sin can def go toe to toe with melee currently, sure you gotta kite a bit sometimes but both absolutely can. And sub has free restealths to the point your comment about being glass doesn’t really matter imo. It’s suuuuper hard to punish a bad rogue for missplays because of how many get out of jail free cards you can have.
Also sustain literally doesn’t matter since your set ups are so lethal you can always get something out of them if you do it right.