Every week I clear through Heroic SoD, yet the majority of my gear is from M+.
I run a few a week, enough to get 2 chest choices. Don’t even have to time them, can just fail my way through some 15’s and get rewarded with boosted ilvl loot far above the ilvl of the content I failed through.
On the rare time a piece of loot actually drops in the raid, it’s a downgrade to the gear I got from M+, despite heroic KT or Sylv being far harder than failing to time a M+ key.
Also, if you fail to kill a boss in the raid you don’t get anything at all. You can’t just rofl your way through wiping and get a consolation prize of mythic raid ilvl gear for failing to kill a raid boss.
If raid loot was to match M+ loot it would have no weekly lockout, and killing a normal boss would reward you with mythic ilvl loot. That’s how welfare and ridiculous the m+ loot system has become.
Normal for people who want to see content with their group of friends and to ignore LFR especially for the toxicity and have a set schedule when to do so. Heroic for those who want more of a challenge or old school raiders who used to push high end content but life has caught up with them but still want a challenge. You cant connect raid and M+. Getting 252 ilvl is once a week from M+ if you pick that. Getting 12/12 246 gear takes time to get all the valor, so you can argue it takes just as much time to get the valor to cap it plus the rating.
A lot of raiders rather not M+. Sure bosses may not go down, but that applies to M+ also. If the boss isnt dying then people are going to leave and the key is dead, then what are you going to do? Same result. A lot of M+ runners dont want to raid and prefer their challenge through dungeons since it requires a lot less people but can take just as much effort. It all boils down to what type of content people want to run.
I guess Heroic and Normal is for casuals like me who just like raiding but dont like M+ or PvP much.
Not that it is a big deal - but I ground my way through Normal and Heroic, and cleared them, on 4 Characters so far, and they sit near 235/240 without doing any M+. I am working on my fifth. I just don’t enjoy M+, I got tired of it in Legion.
Now, is M+ ridiculously more powerful, gearwise - yes. But I don’t do it. I do what I do. Does that mean I won’t compete - well, I don’t compete. I just do me. Same thing with PvP. If you can grind PvP rating, or buy a carry, you can unlock higher ranks. But I don’t PvP much.
If people do things I don’t, and they have an edge, more power to them.
What I find funny is that PvP and M+ gearing has been superior to Raiding all Expansion, and they can use that gear to Raid… but if Raiding gets a bonus (such as Dom sockets), the people who don’t Raid cry foul, get in an uproar, and start chanting “raid or die!”
You can’t do this with M+ either. You actually have to kill the last boss to get anything in your vault. The timer only exists to upgrade the key, the vault is rewarded for completing the dungeon.
The M+ route is definitely wonky. They introduced the M+ system and loot changes there yet didn’t really think things through to notice how uneven it all is.
Feel like Ion would just say, ‘‘We hear you, but we are happy with how it is and want players to participate in every bit of content’’
raid is where i go to put my gear to the test after a week of mythic plus grind. i dont see raid as a place to get gear. mainly because it never drops and the ilvl is below the mythic plus vault.
i dont mind it this way. now, if you were to give me mythic ilvl loot from the vault for doing some heroic bosses, im not going to complain.
Yes, but the whole point of M+ is to time the key. If you fail to time the key, you get rewarded with better-than-raid ilvl gear.
Even if you fully clear the raid and 1 shot every boss, you still don’t get BETTER ilvl loot than what already drops in the raid. It’s like failing to kill Sylvanus on normal but still getting mythic Sylvanus loot from the vault.
You don’t really need to “get lucky” - until a certain point most items that drop are a clear upgrade based purely on ilvl.
I spent more time in Heroic SoD than doing a few M+ every week, yet 80% of my gear is M+.
Except you are lucky to get 1 raid piece a week. Between abysmal drop rate and duplicates, raid gearing is slow as.
Besides, you only have to a +10 to get heroic ilvl loot (and a +10 is easier). You can also do a 14 and get almost equivalent ilvl loot to heroic raids from the end of the run, every single time - 3 ilvls is a negligible difference. The main benefit being you can SPAM those M+ 24/7 and totally deck yourself out in 236 loot, whereas the raid has a weekly lockout.
The M+ dungeon guarantees loot at the end of the run(plus infalted vault loot), you can clear the raid for the week and get nothing, and even in the vault you don’t get inflated loot, just the standard worse-than-easier-m+ ilvl.
