in BFA , for Ret only Spell that burns mana is Flash of Light. It’s completely worthless to keep a huge mana bar for just a single Spell which has two good alternatives ( Selfless Healer & WOG). in next expac, Either remove it completely by better implementing alternative spells or make it meaningful to use. Its just a another example of lazy class design by Blizz.
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I know I am in the minority (especially with Paladin players since you guys seem like luddites a bit, no offense) but I always found it crazy how Blizzard never really evolved their classes for the most part. I say I am in the minority since most Pallies probably like the boring, 1D playstyle.
To give an example, Greatsword Guardian in GW2 is soooo much better and more “ret” than WoW’s ret. But I bet most pallies would find that playstyle too frenetic and complex. Of course, they’d dismiss it by saying that it isn’t deep enough, never mind how much you can customize your side abilities with elites and trait lines.
And while Prot is viable, I simply feel like a lumbering slug - not in a good way. The fantasy is supposed to be this stalwart juggernaut that defends the meek… unfortunately, that is not at all how that feels to play.
classic paladin had a metric ton of gameplay issues, but I think (my opinion) it felt a lot more paladin-y. The problem is, I’m not sure how to preserve that paladin feeling while also making the gameplay fun and enjoyable.
as for the mana bar, it’s something blizz just hasn’t gotten around to removing yet. I hate our combo point system we have now, it’s just using filler until we can use a spender. Combo points work for rogues because they have energy to go along with it, but for paladins it’s pressing buttons until the next thing comes off cooldown to generate holypower.
I kinda liked managing mana, it added more depth to the gameplay than just “1 2 3 spender 1 2 3 spender 1 2 3 spender” (very simplified, but that’s pretty much the essence of ret right now)
I’m probably in the minority, I enjoy playing paladin either way
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I say I am in the minority since most Pallies probably like the boring, 1D playstyle.
this coming from a havoc demon hunter
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I expected this. Havoc is engaging thanks to the situational awareness. More than can be said of the snoozefest that is ret. Anyway, I mained (very successfully)
Feral in WotLK. So care to address the points instead of stupid and irrelevant ad hominems?
This post is about how much of a class design mess blizz made in BFA and How much unfun it is to play. Why they had to put Holy Power or Astral Power ( for Boomy) where they both have Mana Bar. Just imagine if they put a similar things for Warrior/rogue/Feral/Monk where they don’t need a energy bar and buld their Power and dump it. how much unfun those class will be.
The mana bar is a way to prevent infinite cast heal. Removing mana what ressources are you using to cast flash of light? Holy power? That would be terrible.
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GW2 Guardian is pretty much what a wow paladin is suppose to be, especially Holy; if not for the former lead devs of wow paladin wouldnt had been turn into a cleric & we wouldnt be in such a sh*tty state of trying to find the class’s identity. Kinda glad some former wow devs actually got the chance to create the class elsewhere.
For those that don’t know and cries that paladin is supposed to be like how it was in vanilla are completely wrong, the class is nothing more than a cleric during those days. If you want to know what a Warcraft Paladin is supposed to be just look at the Warrior Priest of Sigmar; that is what Warcraft based their Paladins on, and not the typical Paladin of DnD.
I’m pretty sure alot of people would love it if the class become more like GW2’s Guardian but blizzard is too lazy & stupid to go take those ideas like they did it in the past; its pretty much what made wow great, by taking ideas from other good mmo’s of those days to improve it in wow.
No, the only thing that made it paladin are Auras if you are looking at it from a DnD point of view; the class was nothing more than a cleric not even close to a paladin, especially not a warcraft paladin.
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there is no point to it for any hybrid in wow at this point.
Situational awareness, that’s all classes buddy.
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He has to be really aware of the carpal tunnel he’s risking by jamming the same two buttons over and over.
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Yeah, i understand ur point. But u have wog or selfless healer. Which doesnt need mana , heals more and instant. In raid or m+ or pvp, wog or SH heal have better utilization than fol. Mana bar were important when each spell used to cost mana. But now its just not that relevant. Other two are so good, i am sure if blizz removes it, nobody will ever miss mana bar
I’d argue ret needs more situational awareness than most classes. If you don’t have raid frames up to monitor the debuffs and health of your allies constantly for cleanses/blessings/heals/taunts and whatnot you’re doing it wrong, in addition to paying close attention to the enemy mobs as every other dps has to. Most other classes can get away without needing that type of information to play effectively.
I think holy or prot paladins, especially in pvp feel just like what a paladin should be. Hard to kill, hard to stop (with hallowed ground… /cry for ashbringer trinket break), and very support oriented, with decent damage.
*Selfless healer heals still use mana. So does cleansing or using your blessings.
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Been a while since I have played return but wog doesn’t replace the flash of light spell does it?
Mana is there to stop you casting infinite heals when you can’t dps.
If you problem is the physical size is the mana bar then I highly recommend using some addons to alter your user interface since the default one is aweful.
Selfless healer has been a talent as this iteration since mop which requires flash of light. So this won’t make the mana bar go away, we’ve always had casted heal to help us when we couldn’t use wog.
And in its current iteration wog may be strong in mythic +, but it is nerfed terribly in pvp.
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They can’t make Flash of Light spammable without adding a mana cost (I’d like to think that’s obvious). So if you take away the mana cost, they could either;
- Only make it available via Selfless Healer procs
- Give it a long cooldown
- Make it cost Holy Power
- Nerf the healing massively
- Some other random restriction
None of which sounds particularly fun to me.
Of all the things that are wrong with ret you complain about this? Where is the world heading…
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I could agree if you weren’t wrong. But you are.
Our dispel uses mana. Blessing of Protection uses mana. Blessing of Freedom uses mana. Hand of Hindrance uses mana. Our taunt uses mana. Hammer of Justice uses mana. Repentance uses mana. Blinding Light uses mana. Our rez uses mana.
In PvP, the mana bar is immensely relevant. Your post isn’t.
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OP didn’t say only spell that costs mana, they said the only spell that burns mana. FoL for non-holy is the only paladin spell that can actually deplete your mana bar in real play; the other spells that cost mana will never oom you.
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They could make mana more relevant by removing the CD on say Crusader Strike(or Judgement) Then make it cost large amounts of mana, so you only get to use it a few times, while you wait for it to refill again. Then have Flash of Light gen holy power to compensate.