Is it pve parsers being smacked in pvp because they cant 2 shot people while backpedaling with their GDKP weapons?
4 Likes
It invalidates PvE gear in PvP while also making crit based specs a lot worse in PvP. I think a good way to add Resilience to classic is to possibly add it to the ranking gear only and also make resilience just a flat damage %reduction taken from players and not effect crit. This way raiding would still provide BIS PvP items while also preventing a big nerf to crit based specs.
1 Like
If you want to reduce PvP participation, make all the PvP gear have worse pve stats and add resilience to it. Youāll get longer queue times and face the same 3 premades every game you play but atleast youāll have some gear with one of the worst stats ever added to world of warcraft.
8 Likes
This is a better form of resilience than was introduced in TBC, but Iād honestly just prefer, if thereās going to be a tangible difference between PvE and PvP gear, that PvP gear have less main stats and more stamina. Maybe lacking in hit/spell hit and spirit/MP5 as well in exchange for more crit/spell crit and spell dam/healing, though a bit more carefully tuned.
This would keep PvP rather lethal, while giving gear that would be beneficial primarily in PvP, wouldnāt devalue gear obtained through PvE nearly as much - you could burn through health faster, but you also have less health - and last, but certainly not least, wouldnāt create as much of an advantage to stacking healers and turtling, as this meta (as it currently pops up in BGs) is really frigginā boring. Iād rather just have a bigger health pool and healers need to be on their toes, rather than have 20-25% damage mitigated by default.
The effect to crit reduction is definitely an issue due to its interactions, your second suggestion is basically the latter form of PvP resilience where it did just reduce flat damage which was much better (in my opinion)
To be fair this is pretty much how vanilla PvP gear is designed (although perhaps not as harshly as you intend). The issue with stam vs main stats is that typically damage scales much better than stamina does.
PvE gear would end up just being better still since the multiplicative value of the damage increases would quickly outweigh the increased stamina from PvP gear.
Thatās why it often needs a percentage based reduction that is able to work together with stamina to provide the reverse interaction defensively. Alternatively the stamina bonus would just have to be pretty huge to offset it.
But I do agree, too heavy mitigation is also very bad for design due to the issues you mentioned.
Itās one of those knife point balancing situations that is so easy to swing in either direction.
I definitely like the thought of lacking Mp5 on PvP pieces, would certainly force healers to either risk being more vulnerable and take PvE gear for the sustain, or opt to go for the PvP gear knowing they have to be much more careful with their mana usage.
2 Likes
Idk i loved resilience. Forced people to actually play their class over getting lucky rng one shot crits.
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Why some āpvpersā need a pvp stat? I thought pvp was a skill issue, not a gear issue. Pvp stats are dumb, you want stomp pvers in a 1vs 4 because Youāre full resi while they are not.
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no, resil is just a terrible stat, its better to just have pvp gear increase the ilvl/stats of gear whenever pvp combat happens.
You nailed it 100%. All the anti resilience answers in this thread are just excuses for the above.
People who whine about PvP gear not being useful in PvE just want easy welfare epics to use in PvE. Or PvE players who donāt even PvP but get offended when the game adds anything for PvP players. Or raiders who want to just 1 shot people with no skill expression.
2 Likes
Iād rather have them itemize in a way that increased effective health pools than add resil tbh
Real question: I worked hard for my nearly full pve bis warlock (need pants) why should some rat in pvp blues have an advantage over me
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I agree , Pve gear would be better , but leads to 1 shotting players . Thatās all you need is a bunch of Swifty 1 shotting players . Pvp is no longer fun . Just like premades just ruin Pvp for casual players .
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tell me honestly, does casual somehow = terrible to you?
i really want to know because thats the connotation of what you just said.
You do realize most pugs groups are casual players . They donāt live in their mommyās basement playing WoW for over 8 hours per day . Casual players have real jobs and only play WoW for 2 to 3 hours per day . Most Casual players donāt schedule their time over raids . Doesnāt happen.
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*disclaimer, I donāt really PvP. I suck at it.
Personally, I like resillience on pvp gear for one reason and one reason only. I donāt want people who only pvp to have gear that does just as well in pve as the gear I have. The reason?
I remember back when I was playing Wrath classic (before SOD killed all the guilds), at the start of phase 3, we had so many pugs trying to join our Trial of the Crusader raid, technically meeting the gs requirement of 4.6k, but wearing all pvp gear. (They were also always the ones screwing up mechanics)
The purpose of gear checks is not only to check if you have gear with good enough stats to contribute to the raid, but also if you have good pve gear, it is far more likely that you are good at pve: following mechanics, knowing your rotation, etc. While you might be very skilled at pvp, the skillsets are not the same.
This is why I like resillience on pvp gear. It makes the gear meaningful in pvp, without such gear being a shortcut to higher level pve content
1 Like
Resilience turns group pvp into World of Healercraft. You think Priests are insanely hard to kill at 25 in WSG? Resil makes it way worse.
Then there is the harm it does to classes whose entire āthingā is that they have high critrates (not necessarily big crits), like frost mage, who relies on shatter to do ANY burst damage. And itās hard enough to get off a shatter combo off in pvp if the opponent is half-decent.
3 Likes
The problem with Gearscore that it doesnāt tell or show if that players was carried in raids or bought their gear , so you really donāt know if a player is good or not . Hardcore WoW expose alot of bad players because they didnāt know how to play their class . How in the hell did they get by in Retail if they didnāt know how to play their class ?
This is a fair point. However, at least with Wrath, to raid in TOGC, (at least until a fair number of Onyxia lockouts passed), you needed Ulduar gear. It is difficult to get carried in Ulduar, as a singler player f*cking up can sometimes cause an entire wipe, and also there are a lot of DPS races for bosses like Freya, Hodir, and XT.
Granted, with titan rune beta, people could skip past some of this.
Part of the magic of classic imo is that you really do need to progress through each raid to be able to do the next, with few catch up mechanics. Sure, catch up mechanics are nice if you are building up your alt-army, but when mains are relying on it, it isnāt great.
Not saying I want to impose sweatiness on anyone (I would not consider myself a sweaty, typically only parse between 30 and 70 most of the time). But it sucks when you canāt clear content because some person who only pvps pulls your raid down. In essence, I like the separation of PvP and PvE gear, and I think Resilience is a solid method.
I knew something felt off in WSG compared to when I did them in vanilla/TBC/Wrath 15+ years ago - besides a lot of things that I did notice, I mean. I canāt think of a time Iāve entered a BG before Legion, saw a mage, and didnāt see them use Frostbolt a single time. Even in the 10-19 bracket.
I didnāt even realize that I havenāt seen a single frost mage in a BG in SoD. O_O
If PVE gear has to objectively outperform PVP gear in raids I think PVP gear should be tankier and also give better damage against players.
I donāt like resilience but if they add it for dmg reduction and not crit reduction thatās the lesser of 2 evils.
Iād hope for something like 4 resil and 2 pvp power per item, giving 4% dmg reduction and 2% damage and healing to players. Pvp gear shouldnāt just be the fat guy armor that gives a lot of hp but cruddy mana and dps stats.
Rank 14 mage set has 95 INT on the armor, dungeon 0 has 167 INT. Itās an opinion but I strongly dislike that.