What would a Necromancer class look like?

Community General Discussion
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But it’s done pretty clunky/poorly.
The permanent pet is fine, it’s always been there.
The second minion is nice as well.
I’ve not been using the gargoyle, but I have in the past.
Control undead replaces one of your permanent pets. At least it did when I used it the other day.
Apocalypse is pretty disappointing. Most of the time I use it, the target is dead by the time they’re done crawling out of the ground. :frowning:
Army of the dead is a handy little buff.
Haven’t seen the mage yet.

It’s a lot of summoning for that doesn’t play as well as it should.
For a necromancer they should have a permanent little group serving them that you maintain by replacing their numbers or summoning others.

Also playing around with the necromancer on Diablo 3 and it plays much more smoothly and the summons are considerably better.

At this point if I had to pick, I’d say do a proper necromancer and make the unholy DK spec something better.

If the minions via apocalypse didn’t die so fast, or take ages to get out of the ground, they’d be a lot more useful.

Demonology is certainly a better summoner visually, I still need to play it some.

It’s much more advantageous to have proper thinking individuals protecting you when possible and supporting them with your minions.

You’re the one who keeps saying we can’t have a proper necromancer class because of the DK. I see no reason we couldn’t have both.

Maybe we could play a game. Just assume there is going to be a necromancer class added.
What would you do to make it play differently from the Death Knight?
If the Death Knight needed to be reworked to make it possible, what cool things would you change or add to make it work?

Let’s try some constructive brainstorming.

I’m trying it out and finding it to be a bit clunky.
Between trying to manage the diseases and all the half baked summon abilities, it’s a bit of a mess.
I’m still kind of enjoying it though as it’s something different.
I usually go Frost or Blood.

As I said above, Apocalypse has been pretty disappointing. I can see where it’d be useful on a boss since they don’t die so fast, but as I’m leveling it’s pretty much worthless. Then it’s on a bit of a long cooldown.

I’m thoroughly enjoying the necromancer on D3 though. I’ve got a walking army. 7 permanent skeletons. 1 golem. I can summon mages/archers as needed and I just picked up a spell to raise the enemies I’ve slain. It’s great.

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  1. Saying that we need a new class to do the same thing as an existing class because you find it “clunky” or “poorly done” is a bad rationale for a new class. I can find just as many players saying that UH is great or even perfect. Also yeah, it sounds like you need to play a Demonology Warlock.

  2. Not if your power is fueled by corpses. The more corpses, the more powerful the Necromancer becomes. I don’t see how you can justify a healing spec for a class who’s job revolves piling as many corpses around it as possible.

  3. Well because you’d have a class that is using DK abilities, but playing like a Demonology Warlock. It’s redundant. We need a new class that’s very different than the classes we currently have, not be a lazy mix of existing classes.

  4. Unfortunately, I can’t think of any way its possible without completely dumping the current DK class and Demonology Warlock spec, which makes things worse because the Demonology spec just got to a decent place in BFA. I’ll let you have the last word on this and let you guys brainstorm ideas. I just don’t see how you bring a Necromancer into the game without completely nuking the DK class from orbit and pulling a Demon Hunter on the Demonology spec (again). I absolutely oppose taking apart existing classes to bring a “new” class into the game that is merely a combination of the stolen parts.

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What I imagine.

Lich- frost and shadow magic to deal ranged damage with perhaps an “ascension” form to turn into the lich model.

Unholy- summon hordes of lesser undead to overwhelm the enemy. Bonus points if they can use dead allies and enemies to make more undead.

bloodweaver- healer that uses blood magic to transfer life energy between targets and also apply diseases.

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Yep, this is essentially a caster DK with a healing spec instead of a tank spec.

87

Personally I think a bone spear type Necromancer could be nifty. Wall of Bone, Bone Prison, Bone Spear, etc… Of course, given all the builds possible with D3’s Necromancer… I’m sure Blizzard could make it work, though it’d tread dangerously close to being potentially too similar to Unholy/Demo if they went the summon route.

Would there be similarities with other classes/specs? Sure. But it could still work if done right.

88

It’d look like a demo lock with different pet skins.

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89

I mean a destruction lock and fire mage are about the same thing.

90

I’ll have to get around to giving the warlock a try, but I’d much rather play a Necromancer as that’s what I prefer thematically.
I am currently playing Unholy again. That was my preference when it first came out, it played smoother. I can say why you’re saying the Unholy DK is basically a Necromancer, but it’s still a clunky one. It needs some adjustments if that’s the intention. I’d much rather see a multi spec class that does it properly for more variation.

People have been giving plenty of examples why it makes sense. Blood is already an example of how it can be used to heal. Managing life force and such is another.

You’d have a summoner using necromancy, hence the whole Necromancer title.
People have been asking for the class for over a decade.

There’s no reason Demonology would have to be touched. It’s a completely different theme. Having another class that does similar with a different theme is fine, additional abilities can be made to set it apart, or the summoning can be handled slightly different.

It’s even entirely possible that if the DK was reworked, that it would end up in an even better place. Personally I’d say just leave it alone.

Do you picture that more as a short term buff/power up like the void form thing Shadow priests have? Or more like a top tier talent that turns you into one like the other shadow priest ability? lol.
I think the talent would be neat as once you become a lich, you don’t normally go back to being a mortal. There’d then be the question of how it’d be handled visually.

aka Necromancer.

For a summoning spec…for an idea of resource management, now I know this is going to be similar to the idea of runes for a death knight, but it’s visually different and kind of fits the theme.
A necromancer has a passive ability to maintain 6-7 skeletons.
Maybe with the option to dismiss until combat.
These serve as the “auto-attack”. They’ll attack enemies and take the damage.
When one dies, another rises. Perhaps a short cooldown.
These can also serve as a resource for casting or targets for the casting.

Say we have a spell called Bone Storm. AoE targetted style.
Casting it consumes 3 skeletal minions turning them into a storm of bone shards assaulting enemies in the targetted area.

Short cooldown, and the skeletons then respawn.

Perhaps some sort of power up ability that’s targeted to a skeletal minion upgrading it into a bone knight, giving it additional armor visually and numerically and health, this causes it give off aggro as well and serve as a tank.

You could have other spells to turn a skeletal minion into a mage or archer, or perhaps like Diablo 3 those are just additional short time summons.

A long cooldown power up could be summoning a flesh or blood golem. Perhaps damage dealt by the blood golem has a percentage going to health of party members around it.
Perhaps using the blood leech visual that Blood Trolls an such use, blood is leeched off and then merged with a few of the skeletal minions into the form of the golem.

Devour : consumes a skeletal minion to heal the caster.

Maybe having the minions serve as a resource could make it play a bit different than the Warlock…does it do that?

Bone Golem : consumes 3-4 skeletons into a boney construct that deals damage for X amount of time and also has an aura like Thorns? Things attacking it take a small amount of additional damage? Bone shards poking out?

I also like the idea of a tank spec, but it also makes me think that’d have been a great idea for Unholy DK had blood not already been the tank spec.
Take the bone armor idea up to an actual visual, and have it be summoning minions and replenishing the bone armor via those minions.
The D3 Necro bone armor is pretty neat visually. I could see that idea being adapted to a tank spec. Lot cooler than a bone swirling around you.

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Maybe that could also be used to set it apart from the DK.
A DK is first and foremost a knight dealing damage. Occasionally summoning some minions that are mainly a short term thing (as currently are).

For a necromancer the summoning is the simplest part so it’s second nature. His time is spent empowering and using those minions as a resource.

If there wasn’t a tank spec, (doesn’t have to be) the bone armor idea could be a defensive cooldown. Consume a few skeletal minions into a protective exoskeleton…give it a timer, or charges that are consumed as hit.

So if you’re consuming minions to defend yourself, you’re then doing less damage, but staying alive in the process.
If an actual visual model wouldn’t work, could have a set of actual armor that is visually equipped on the character while the spell is active. Like a short term bone armor themed transmog only up as the spell is up.

92

Oooh…

If skeletons are a resource, maybe the cooldown until another is ready, is because it’s physically crawling out of the ground.

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Mana could be an additional resource, or call it something different and let it just slowly refill, or add some spells that generate it.

Empower Mage : Consumes a skeletal minion rebuilding it with arcane powers. Could be a stationary turret for X amount of time. Or it could be a regular minion that follows and performs ranged attacks for X amount of time then falls apart. Or would we prefer that it stays empowered but that skeleton can not be used as a resource until it’s dead or destroyed by the caster?

Perhaps that’s part of the play, you can consume the skeletons for different spells you cast.
Or you empower the skeletons into different roles and then you sit back and maintain them instead of consuming them for spells?

Have a little pet bar with icons for the empowered minions where you can right click to destroy one, which then begins the crawling out of the ground cooldown to make it usable as a resource again.

Maybe this is how you could have a tank pet. Maybe instead of a skeletal knight, which could just be a empowered skeleton with additional melee damage, you get a bone golem (earth elemental style) that serves as your tank minion, but while active you have fewer skeletons to use as a resource?

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While I agree that the game needs a Necromancer and that style of one is cool. I really don’t think it needs an entire class. The ground work already exists in the Unholy DK. Honestly it could use a complete rework in my opinion and not because it isn’t good because it is but because it feels like they could have gone so much further with it.

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can we stop with the new classes and crap , let’s get actual content in here because seasons are not that fun… i’m bored af here. don’t feel any fun in your recycled mythic dungeons season. the only fun thing is the new raid twice a week and then ResidentSleeper.

you dont keep a game alive with only 2 days a week :wink:

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Different groups likely work on different things.

97

Okay, organized my idea a bit better.

It needs either a spell that’s used to heal the minions, or skip that and part of the play is just rebuilding your minions as they fall.

What’d be some good spells for the caster himself to use? Like Bolt type spells…a death bolt of some sort? Spells the caster could be using if he has his minions all empowered

I feel like there needs to be some neat long cool down power up, something like Army of the Dead, but I doubt we’d want to reuse that, so something different that fits.

=-=-=-=-=
Necromancy
Skeletal Minion focused dps spec.
=-=-=-=

With summoning being second nature to the necromancer, the summoning of minions is passive. A group of 7 (or whatever) skeletons always accompany the necromancer and serve as a spellcasting resource.

When a skeleton is consumed there is a short cooldown before another is ready. Cooldown visually represented by the skeleton physically crawling from the ground.

Skeletons serve as the main source of damage as they attack enemies. Ability to command what target to attack similar to pets. Respond as a pack.
When a skeleton is consumed, graphical effect of the skeleton’s bones flying back to the Necromancer’s location where the spell is performed where applicable.

Examples of how spells could be handled.

Bone Storm : AoE : Casting it consumes 3 skeletal minions turning them into a storm of bone shards assaulting enemies in the targetted area.

Bone Shards : AoE : Destroys a skeleton at it’s location turning it into sharpnel causing a small bleed effect on targets hit.

Armor of the Dead/Bone Armor : Consumes 2 Skeletons to create a protective shell around the caster. 5 Charges. Each blocked attack consumes a charge. Visually represented possibly by a suit of heavy bone themed armor applied as a transmog as the spell is in effect.

Devour : Consumes a skeleton to heal the caster for X health.

Animate Dead (ally) : Battle res, animates fallen ally as a skeletal version of appropriate race. Can be resurrected after battle to appear as normal. (optional visual?)

Bone Lance : Launches a bone projectile wreathed in frost at target, consumes 1 skeleton.

Bone Cage : Spikes of bone erupt around target rooting it in location, consumes 2 skeletons.

Empowered Minions (limit of 5, golems count as 3)- when a skeleton is empowered it becomes a nonconsumable minion.
Small bar with icons representing the empowered minions and golems. Right clicking will destroy empowered minion allowing another consumable skeleton to spawn.

Bone Mage : Consumes a skeleton rebuilding it at the caster’s location with ranged arcane abilities.

Bone Archer : Consumes a skeleton rebuilding it at the caster’s location with ranged physical abilities.

Bone Knight : Empowers a skeleton at it’s current location with additional health, armor, and melee physical (or other) abilities.

Animate Dead (enemy) : Raises a fallen enemy to serve the caster. Occupies an empowered minion slot.

Blood Golem : Blood is leeched from target and merged with 3 skeletons to create a blood golem that attacks the target. As the golem deals damage, there is a percentage of damage applied as health via splash to party members nearby.

Bone Golem : 3 skeletons are merged into a bone construct. Serves as a tank pet. Sharp boney protrusions cause a small amount of damage to enemies as it is attacked.

Gonna scroll up and see what else that’s suggested would fit in with this.

Perhaps some sort of uber minion that occupies all 5 minion slots? Maybe as a timed power up?

Also I was kinda thinking…if Unholy DK did have to be changed. There’s a small change that could be made to make it visually different, that still fits in with the theme, and could still play the same.

You could leave the regular undead permanent minions.
Make the summoned minions from apocalypse and/or army of the dead into spirits/souls to play off the Rune weapon devouring souls idea.

Army of the Dead fits a DK since it was a main ability, but if they wanted it for a Necromancer they could change the DK one so he puts weapon into the air like the Lich King, and then have the swirl of souls come out around him in an AoE effect, either have that do the damage, or have that be the animation as it summons wraiths/banshee etc.
Name it something like Souls of the Slain…
OR
Just use that idea for the Necromancer and leave Army of the Dead as it is but change Apocalypse to be Souls.
Just throwing out an idea there. :stuck_out_tongue:

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Has this been shared yet?

`https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/2294389-New-Necromancer-Concept-2017

Pretty well done, I’d play it.

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Necromancers are former magi, so they would most definitely use mana. There are a few necromancer archetypes that could all be wrapped into any number of specs.

Blood - san’layn, blood trolls, defias blood magi, bleeding hollow clan, and even mogu fleshshapers… most likely a done deal.

Dark Chemistry - apothecaries, witch doctor voodoo/juju , it’s easy to make a blight spec or even a healing through damage spec with every kind of DoT under the sun guaranteeing the enemy is always slowly dying. meanwhile your witch doctor potions are giving you a bloodlust-type effect or even healing allies.

Lich - I would like a lich spec but it might take too much from frost dk frost mage and spriest. Could work.

Bone - summon bone constructs and rez skeletons of previous wars passively from the ground to always have a small army of skeletons with you that you can build into a construct

I noticed that guy is i this thread too

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The guy that did that write up on mmo-champ had a spec kind of based around the dark chemistry idea as well.
I like how it also incorporates the skeletal minions as a class wide base with an additional minion type based on spec.

He also covers the lich idea among a few other transformations.

I was thinking mana as well but something else is fine with me. Diablo uses an essence…life essence? that you build via abilities.

Whatever works for a fun playstyle.

The addition of san’layn would make a very nice race to play as a Necromancer.
Blood as a magic type is definitely present like you’d mentioned.

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Alice Cooper

102

The EQ Necromancer was awesome. At higher levels they could summon a Spectre, which was quite different than the stupid skeleton (Hello Jebaber).