I’m actually curious what the forums think the top DPS class should be. Before SoD I was of the opinion it should be rogue, my opinion for SoD is hunter. Here is my reasoning:
I believe the top DPS should always be a pure DPS class as that is the only role that they can perform. They should be greedy, while the utility is provided by the hybrid classes. The next criteria to follow should be, is the class melee or ranged? Melee often times have to deal with more mechanics, they have more stuff to dodge, and when the tank dies are usually the first to take threat and die.
Following melee should be the caster DPS, this would be mages and warlock (I am still talking about classic here). While they may not have to deal with as many mechanics, when they do arise having to stop a spell and move to dodge a mechanics can feel bad. Also, boss kicks feel bad as well. That said, they are a bit more safer than melee DPS. The only issue with this regarding SoD is now both mages and warlocks are considered hybrids as they can tank or heal given the class.
Finally, lets talk about our lone ranged physical DPS hunter. Hunter in classic is one of the easiest to play in raid. While both aimed and multi shot were casted, hunters have a lot easier of a time moving during boss fights because of the way auto shot works. Because of this I am of the opinion hunters in classic should have been last place as far as pure DPS rankings go. That changes completely in SoD as hunters are now the only pure DPS class on top of also being able to play melee.
Therefore while rogue fit neatly into the top DPS for me regarding classic, with SoD as rogue can now tank; I believe this spot should be given to melee hunter. I would love to hear opinions, with actually logical information. That doesn’t include warrior because duh. That’s not an argument that’s just a low IQ statement.
EDIT: I just want to add this doesn’t mean hybrid class should significantly underperform compared to the pure DPS classes. They should be right behind them while providing utility the pure DPS classes do not.
I don’t care so long as the difference between top and bottom is negligible enough that everyone can compete and contribute regardless of which class/spec they have chosen.
It’s interesting that you would start with the assumption that any case can be made for one class being top over the other. No one deserves or should be first. All any of us should expect is to be viable.
The most skilled, and prepared players of all classes within margin with different classes having slight advantages on certain styles of fights, aoe, cleave, st, movement, exe.
hunters in sod at least. They are the only true DPS only class in the game rn. And no i dont even play hunter…just makes sense to me that a class whos only purpose is DPS should be the best
The highest damage dealer in PvE should be whoever has the hardest time getting their damage off in PvP, if you don’t balance this way both PvE/PvP will be garbage.
Yes, no one deserves to be first or last but it’s going to happen. That’s just how the game works. That said, there shouldn’t be a situation where a class is the best healer, the best dps, and the best tank. That’s why pure dps should be on top. That said, skill expression should be at play too. On warcraft logs the statistical data should show pure DPS classes out performing hybrids as skill goes up. For your average raid however, it should be common to see hybrids out performing pure dps as skill levels differ between the two.
top dps should be whatever’s on top because perfect balance is impossible, but every dps should ideally be close to each other. bring the player, not the class, hybrids should not be punished for being able to perform multiple roles when the game only allows them to perform one role at a time anyway
Better yet, the worst two dps specs were meta in classic. Thats how bad the tuning is when meta in classic becomes F-tier in SoD. Completely thrown away and forgotten.
This is misleading because you are talking about max parses, which are not representative in any way of the average player’s experience.
If you look at average parses, the spread is more like 383.24 at the top end (fire mage) to 186.52 at the bottom end (frost mage). That’s still not good enough and shows that they have work to do bringing in the outliers, but it isn’t as bad as the max parses suggest.
It is also the case that it really is just a matter of outliers. If you remove the top 2 performing specs and the bottom 3 performing specs, you are left with 9 DPS specs that are within 16% of one another. I would say that 10-15% would be ideal, so that’s pretty good. The real problem is that you have Fire Mages who need to be brought back down to the pack and 3 really underperforming specs (Ret Paladin, Ranged Hunter, and Frost Mage) that need significant buffs.
If no one deserves (i.e. should) be first, then what is the point of asking which class should be first?
That’s the entire conceit of your post and it looks like we agree that it is a completely meaningless question.
Says who? Why does it matter at all who is best at any of those roles if any heal/tank/dps spec played competently can complete the content with relative ease? Every class/spec should be viable at its role. That’s the absolute end of the list of things that class balance should be.
So you admit that no one should be first or last, but then make claims about why a particular class/spec should be first. Do you honestly not see how contradictory it is when you admit that you did in your first sentence that I quoted above and then say the exact opposite three sentences later?
A good balance would be if boss fights were designed to allow certain specs to shine. On menagerie, living bomb is really good and mages shine there for example. Ideally there isn’t going to be a class that is #1 on every fight.
Currently mages, hunters, and warlocks are consistently top 3 with top warrior parses holding top spots, if not best averages.
So you admit that no one should be first or last, but then make claims about why a particular class/spec should be first. Do you honestly not see how contradictory it is when you admit that you did in your first sentence that I quoted above and then say the exact opposite three sentences later?
Just because I feel a certain way about something, doesn’t change the facts. There will be a class at the top no matter what. How do we choose that? Hybrid taxing seems to be the best solution.
Ideally every SPEC should be considered and fights designed around satisfying and enjoyable utilization of your unique class abilities allowing for the optimal group composition to be fairly well balanced with an Encounter where each Spec can shine.
Naturally, there will be some overlap as certain Specs will need to be able to preform each others roles but in general.
I think your questions speaks to one of the larger issues of the current gamer mentality that you must be a top preformer to enjoy the game. The metric that is used in this case is DPS but it is inherently a flawed ideology and an extremely narrow scope that limits the players ability to enjoy other ways to impact a raid.
I’ve played a ret paladin in classic era (I know what a crime) and I saved many many wipes with clutch BoPs, LoH, and enjoyed min maxing one of the lowest DPS specs in the game. Almost no one would notice that I LoH the tank when the healers were still channeling and the tank would have died. Almost no one noticed when a healer agroes a raid mob and you BoP them to re-establish threat on the tank. Almost no one notices when you cleanse their poison before they are rushed by the “kills-you-in-one-shot-if-you-are-poisoned” trash mobs in AQ20.
There is so much room for skill expression but as long as eyes are glued to parses and DPS meters, nothing but high DPS will be considered valuable.
The only way to keep any sort of balance between PvP and PvE with damage is long casted abilities requiring stationary positioning or ramping damage. PvP in SoD has become so out of wack because so many of the added power abilities are instants with long ranges on them. There is little to counterplay on instants where as if the power is baked into long casts, they can be interrupted or high damage classes can be focused to prevent the damage output.
That being said, this logic should apply to pure dps classes MM hunter (power into aimed shot/steady shot), Destro Lock (Chaos Bolt), and Arcane mages (Arcane Blast) that aren’t specced into heals.
This has always and will always be complete clown reasoning.
In the current state of SoD rogue should be highest pve damage because they bring absolutely nothing else to the raid, every other class at least brings some sort of buff to the group