As Skycaller said:
It’s an easily avoidable issue.
That’s neither here or there though because the current discussion is what does the established lore support, not what fanfiction can we make up that could justify our own desires.
It’s not about who they have stuff in common with. We’re discussing who did what for who. If we want to go the route of who had stuff in common, they have far more in common with the Blood Elves than any other race.
I mean if simply talking to one another is a viable option then the Alliance/Horde probably wouldn’t have had a Fourth War/blamed each other for the debacle of the Broken Shore.
As for sailing, I don’t think it would be too difficult/impossible. Hell, in a theoretical Fifth War(where new allies races would be recruited), I assume the Alliance would take back some of their old bases.
Honestly, if Blizzard wanted to highlight their commonality it would have talked about how Tyrande of all people was born in Suramar. She was a daughter of the city.
That isn’t really relevant to commonality. Tyrande, Night Elf culture, and Nightborne culture have changed dramatically (well not so much the Nightborne) over the past 10,000 years. They may have had commonality ages ago, but now one is a moon worshipping priest who leads a society built around shunning the arcane and protecting nature and the other is a culture of arcane extravagance and bending nature to it’s will.
She isn’t “shunning” the arcane anymore. I would also point out it was thanks to nature magic that the Nightborne were freed from their addiction to the Nightwell.
I dunno about that. A shared struggle through being born into a metaphorical drug addiction is a much bigger bond to explore than “I was born here”, especially since the whole gimmick of night elves is them revamping their entire civilization because they don’t want to be like the highborne.
Not that I’m happy that NB became playable, but still.
True, also the Sethrak priest of Sethraliss that’s in Dazar’alor would also notice the absence of Sethraliss which would show that she’s not simply answering just Talanji either but rather something larger at play.
The Horde and Alliance didn’t have their people in each other’s cities though, nor worship the same diety that they can somewhat easily commune with. Not to mention the history of bad blood between them that does not exist between the Devoted and Zandalari.
Either way, this thread was not about how to bend the story in crazy ways to make x race for that faction, it’s simply so that the current lore has the devoted sethrak closer to the zandalari, and unless blizzard decided to undo that, then it is still so.
You like to compare it to the nightborne but it’s not the same. It would be if all the sethrak quests were neutral and had the Horde chars insulting them, and the nightborne would be the same as the sethrak situation if one faction only helped Thalyssra once from withering and helping her save some others, while the other faction did the whole rebellion culminating in the defeat of Elisande. But now it wasn’t like that and the nightborne quests are all neutral with a specific NPC being rude through the questlines where she’s present.
Yes the Shen’dralar were allowed back into Night Elven society and arcane magic is no longer banned. But nightelf society as a whole has not been seen to shift towards viewing it favorably nor has it been shown to be integrated into culture in any way outside of the Shen’dralar sub culture.
Yes nature magic helped save the Nightborne. Doesn’t mean they suddenly revere nature and so far nothing has shown that their view towards nature has changed.
Blizzard COULD have used these as inroads to connect the two, but they didn’t.
Edit: Even though it’s not relevant I want to state I believe Nightborne should have been neutral. Heck, even the HM Tauren joining the Horde feels bad.
Thanks to the Fouth War, I would say most prejudice about it is all but gone. Especially considering without mages, all the night elves would be dead.
With the announcement that all race/classes will be available it all but guranteed the nightborne’s attitude to nature will change.
Of course Talanji could simply not believe said priest and decide to expel them thus forcing the Devoted to find new allies.
Fine, the Horde did more for the Sethrak, however the nightborne/night elves still had a closer history and I would argue closer culture to the night elves. And similarly, even if the Sethrak has currently closer ties to the Zandalari, if Blizzard wanted to make them Alliance, they will do so regardless of those ties.
Nightelves distrust the arcane because of the risks that come with it. They’re not unaware that it has very practical uses. A cultural change for a people measuring age in the thousands of years does not happen so quickly.
This doesn’t reflect major societal change. It reflects Blizzard wanting to open up options for players. Not all classes are equally represented in a race’s culture. Gnome priests for example exist but are uncommon and not emblematic of gnomes as a people.
Once again, we’re discussing established canon. Not fanfiction. Talanji “could do” just about anything. It’s meaningless to go down that route.
Want to bet?
When a portal whirled open, the normally reserved night elves cheered. The magi who stepped through, who until this moment had only cautiously been made welcome in Darnassus, smiled in surprise. The cheers swelled when they each opened another portal—and reached a crescendo as, over the course of
several minutes (and with not a few interruptions), a dozen bears, birds, and nightsabers came through.
I would say you would have to wait and see. Regardless, there will be a change.
First Arcanist Thalyssra says: I must admit, when I first learned of the Horde, I was skeptical that we would share common ground.
First Arcanist Thalyssra says: I though our kin from Kalimdor would make obvious allies. But their arrogance and mistrust soon proved otherwise.
There, from Thalyssra herself, she thought the night elves would have made the obviously allies but simply because Tyrande was made to be a jerk to them that obviously did not happen.
Similarly, if Blizzard wanted to the Sethrak could have a similar event happen where even if the Zandalar/Horde would have made the obvious allies something could happen to change their opinions.
I see your point but I personally disagree since the current night elves rejected the highborne culture for the longest time, until the shen’dralar was allowed to return, but even they were kinda outsiders of nelf society and not a very large group.
I think the mana addiction story plays more heavily coupled with the blood elves also being a magic-oriented culture.
I also think it’s one of the better moments that Tyrande clearly still has resentment and lashed out at even the friendly nightborne, after all that very people she fought/hated still existed and “thrived” in her home city all these years, a pocket of the ancient highborne culture with castes etc that she hated, the very same that made a deal with the demons and now once more did it.
And I think it makes sense that the words of a leader are taken seriously and weigh heavily, why would you want to ally with someone that despises you?
That said it’s the story we got and I think it makes sense even if it could be more clear. Could blizzard have written it differently? Surely yeah, they could had Mordent Evenshade there to represent the nelves or something, played up Tyrande/Malf as suramarians, etc. But they clearly wanted to trade elf models on the factions so we got what we got, that said I don’t think the lore reasons are bad.
But most important is that we the players of both factions quested with them for a long time and lore reasons aside it obviously feels bad to see characters you bonded with go to the other side. Lore reasons be damned. I think this is the real big failure of blizzard and I hope they don’t repeat it.
And in the theoretical event the Sethraks are made into an alliance race, I would say Blizard can simply write something similar.
Dun Morogh is the most brutal starter questline I’ve ever played. I loved it.
Just absolute bedlam out the gate, full on combined arms warfare with no mercy, political conspiracies, terrorist attacks.
Ish was amazing. But the Dwarves are small dudes with those charming Scottish brogues who are always raising a glass in good cheer with a fun toast about bravery and comradery.
So nobody really notices these dudes are lunatics who’d blow up your house just because they wanted to try out a new mortar shell.
The best way for the alliance to get Sethrak is to build a relationship with them while the world is at peace.
It will be a challenge but it’s not impossible.
They could, but then again it would require some “heavy” lifting from the team to crowbar them away from the current place next to the zandalari that they’ve put them currently.
And by that, I mean that currently there would be more work to justify them on the alliance than on the horde. Requires several points that need to change like the Alliance lack of presence on zandalar, the fall out from the zandalari and vulpera, and Sethraliss herself. Vs just having the devoted and zandalari help each other slightly more/deepen their relationship when they already are friends with each other and even coexist in the same city.
This is why currently I think they should be classified as horde leaning.
Personally, I don’t think it is as heavy as you make it out to be. All it takes for a race to change side is a Garithos.
Yes, because they were going to not die. If satan himself appeared to save me from a burning building I would cheer. It could be the start of societal change, but nothing written so far has shown nightelf society at large changing their view. Stating it is or has changed is only speculation.
Sure. But you can’t say it is proof of change until we see that change. You’re speculating.
Fair point. Although I interpreted this as them having a shared history whereas they know little to nothing about the culture and people of Silvermoon. In that vein I’d question what you think is similar about Nightborne and Nightelf culture.
Once again, this is pointless speculation that would require Blizzard to overlook the entirety of Sethrak lore. Established lore doesn’t support them joining the Alliance. Could new lore be made? Sure, but that’s true of literally anything.
The night elves army has openly worked with night elven mages now with little to no sign of prejudice. Also, it would be highly hypocritical of them to hate on mages considering the majority of them are only alives thanks to them.
I mean we see it with the trolls who were retroactively given druids. They as a race were ultimately made to be closer to nature. Similarly, in order to make Worgen druids the Harvest Witches were created/Gilneas was retroactively made to be a nation closer to nature.
I interpret it as them not thinking they shared the values of the Horde. That ultimately the Alliance/night elven ones are probably closer to things they care about.
And established lore did not support the nightborne joining the Horde. At best they would have remained neutral. In a theoretical world where Blizzard did want more bestial races on the Horde, the Sethrak are certain a candidate. Which is part of the thread title.
While we have not seen anything really since BFA about the Shen’dralar, I think it’s the start of the night elves being accepting of them, after all they came to the aid during their darkest hour when the night elves lost almost everything. And such events can create a lot of change in a culture, just look at the blood elves after the scourging of Quel’thalas.
That said I’d love to see more of them.
Also can you really have anything more terrifying the mechagnomes?
Like they already have this creepy factor;
But on top if it they’re little gremlin dudes. So you’re probably not even going to notice them until a buzz saw neatly severes your legs. And before you can even scream some horrific mechanospider leaps into your mouth and burrows into your brainstem.
So you’re still conscious and in agony as the machine puppeteers you. Until at last your use as a combat or labor servitor is spent, and mercifully, you are ground up into vitapaste to nourish your pint sized cyborg overlords.
Resistance is futile.