Yes.
That and the people who traditionally did pay attention to the story, and still liked the character. Which, implying that was some small ratio of people is some revisionist bull****.
Sorry, you won’t convince me the Sylvanas heelturn was planned before they started writing BFA.
Yeah, I don’t think there was any way they would have presented the BfA cinematic the way they did if they were planning the heelturn at that time.
What I would believe is that it’s something Afrasiabi has been wanting to do since Garrosh got the villain bat (if not earlier), and the moment he saw an opening, he leaped in with both feet.
The Horde had a civil war, this was an admission from many within the Horde that the war they fought was wrong but one the Alliance had every right to fight. The Alliance gained nothing from this war hence the very specific term I used, pyrrhic.
What do you want? Gold? Land? Assistance? Trials? Executions? What form do you want them to take? Story? Or actual in game change like Ashenvale now being Alliance territory and Hyjal becoming the Night Elf home?
What about Horde players? Blizzard has written them as definitive bad guys now, not the players. Why should Horde players have to have this baggage dumped on their characters and faction they chose to play as and then be punished for it? Do you even care?
Yeah. It was a facetious statement. You then follow it up with facetious statement.
Who cares? Like you can put her in the damned cinematics, specifically the Legion intro, and not equate that to her becoming Warchief. And Zekhan, who’s wearing full on tribal gear and has that accent intact they apparently had no issues with; but Vol’jin they’d take issue with? In fact, the little Zappyboi was so beloved that he’s become a main character in the Darkspear.
Yeah, Zekhan proved devs wrong. Trolls are very much appreciated and anticipated. For a brief cameo in the first cinematic he stole the show. People were super hyped to see full rendered troll in CGI being badass.
Of course I can’t, but its just like you cannot possibly convince me that they didn’t. Or at the very least, that this sort of deeply nihilistic, selfish outcome wasn’t at least a major option for her. The Legion cinematic is one thing, but you have her go into Stormheim and have her repeat Arthas’s own “A New Order” message he used when he killed his father ONLY to the Alliance PC? And then have her do absolutely nothing else throughout the rest of the expansion?
That is not a good sign!
Obviously a dark turn is always possible. I just don’t think Blizzard had it planned when they made Legion.
I still don’t see making more Forsaken as anything more than responsible leadership at the time. Regardless of what edgelordy things they had her say while doing it.
And I see it as her attempting to pad out her meatshield. Also, fun thing about Val’kyr. They are slaves. They don’t get to choose. And as much as Sylvie could have used their power to improve the quality of life of the Forsaken by say … giving them bodies like Nathanos; she could have just as easily made them all into Val’kyr and made them a Bulwark that could never betray her.
Didn’t The Nine choose to follow her after Arthas was defeated?
Yeah, no, they bound themselves to her as their only escape from him. They are still her slaves, provided that deal wasn’t as way too Sylvie convenient as it seems to have been. They get to serve her, die for her, then they get to spend an eternity in her hell, for her.
As a side note, now that we know Heyla is in the Maw and likely working for the Jailor, absolutely its going to be written that Sylvie’s Primes were too. That the reason that their deal with Sylvanas seemed way too good to be true, was because it was; and that Sylvie is getting played. Just like Vol’jin, Just like Illidan, at the moment of her death she was dragged away from her destined afterlife into one someone merely wanted to convince her was hers. Then they set her loose to do her … because it was convenient for them. Just like she has done many times to other people.
But they still CHOSE to do that, right? Like, they could have remained enslaved to Arthas instead?
Granted, it’s only choosing your master, but it’s still a choice.
Well, they would have been entrapped to Bolvar technically. But, yes, there was at least an A or B choice presented them. Though, it does bring another shifty issue to the forefront … why was it so important that they not be bound to him? They were essentially doing what Arthas conceptually might have made them do while under the employment of Sylvanas … so why?
These Nine Primes and their deal has always been really sketchy.
Haha. Good one.
At the time, I’m sure it was just a means to an end for the writers. A way to make new Forsaken without using the Blight or the Lich King. And a way to give the Banshee Queen yet another brand of undead warrior women to use.
My theory is that there’s been an ongoing tug-of-war between various writers for years about where Sylvanas was going to go as a character. I think there’s at least one writer who’s been throwing in the Dark Hints at every opportunity as an attempt to push her toward full-on villainhood, while one or more other writers who weren’t so much on board with that idea were nudging her toward a more positive path. But now the “villain fan” writer has clearly gotten his/her way.
(I’m tempted to identify Alex Afrasiabi as the one who’s been pushing for Sylvanas to be the big bad, because he was writing noble Garrosh at the same time she was acting sketchy in Cataclysm, but in spite of what I said in my last post, that’s just a guess.)
Alliance should get no reparations at all.
Varian was the greatest human to ever live in my opinion.
I swear Anduin did not come from his loins. Impossible.
You cannot fault a Horde retreat from the fight, the fight was lost. Staying would only throw away lives. The alliance were able to flee as well, and did so just as wisely. Both sides suffered the loss of leadership. Both suffered great losses and both armies barely escaped.
Blizzard was building up just how overwhelming Legion was- that all of us combined had no chance- and had to retreat and change tactics- and quick. Enter the player base to the tale.
I kind of wish the Alliance could have gotten something out of the cinematic, besides the fact Anduin can rez a whole army (which he conveniently never does again). There were things we could use, like a replacement for Maraad, to an actual Night Elven (not Highborne) mage.
Why a non Highborne Mage? I mean, they got never real Representation if they don´t use them?
Because we haven’t really seen any of the Shen’dralar’s apprentices, outside being the object of derision of a Blood Elf in Azshara. But the one in the trailer presumably is one, from her dark blue hair (Highborne are practically always white), and her less-Highborne, more traditionally WCIII/Vanilla Night Elven clothing.