I honestly doubt there was anything “magic” about his bones. At least nothing concrete. It felt more like how old men use to say they could feel a stormy weather from their bones.
And in Saurfang’s case in particular there was never any dicussion about said bones. At most it was a gamble by Anduin but guided with some faith he would do the right thing.
However he doesn’t know saurfang at all. Literally met the orc for two minutes and decided he knew saurfang was all about stopping sylvanas.
Lets not forget that this is the same orc that had lead the Horde in the invasion of stormwind and razed it.
The one who had lead the Horde against the Night elves recently and burnt the teldrassil down.
Had been still with the Horde after that and was killing alliance soldiers in Lordearon.
Yeah he seems like a real trustworthy orc.
Again the amount of times the story makes Anduin’s “Leaps of faith” pan out is stupid. If his entire decision make process is that then its just stupid writing.
Logically there is no reason why Anduin would ever trust the Horde. They have constantly in his lifetime been the monsters his father and the people around him would have said they were.
Varian had talked to Anduin about him(as mentioned during Lordearon). He has been sending spies against him and Slyvanas so he would have intel from them. Lastly, it was mentioned during Lordearon he would"talk" to Saufang about honor.
And Anduin was talking to Garrosh of all people and trying to have him change his mind during the trial. I’d point out Garrosh broke every bone in his body.
He has done it a total of two times. Once was in trying to redeem Garrosh and once when trying to redeem Saurfang. His attempt with Garrosh didnt exactly pan out well.
He has stated he doesnt “trust” the Horde. But he does trust people can change. I’d also point out people like Velen believed anyone can change and even Alexstrasza said she would be willing to pardon anyone who actually sought forgiveness.
Again every argument you use is based on Golden’s terrible writing of the anduin that uses illogical reasoning.
For example, Why would Varian discuss how saurfang has Honor when hes the orc lead the Horde that razed stormwind?
What made him think there was anything redeemable in Garrosh?
Why would Anduin who was present at the trial and heard all the Hordes crimes Still think the horde could change when they have repeated the same Atrocities again?
He trusted Baine enough to ignore what genn was saying about about them leaving them to die and getting his father killed at the broken shore.
Again more rubbish from Golden, that has basically proved they were wrong to make that decision at the time. Velen believed the Horde wouldn’t commit Genocide against another race yet they have. Alexstraza believed they would never hold another race Captive and use them to empower the Horde yet they tried.
Her own writing has made the Horde Irredeemable and has too force characters to now go along with Anduin’s thinking. It was why the breaking the cycle seemed so stupid as she has perpetuated a cycle of the Horde committing attrocites and the Alliance forgiving them.
Did you not do ICC? If Varian truly hated Saurfang he wouldnt have let him take his kid’s body
I’d say the same thing that made Tirion think Arthas could be redeemed. Hell, we are going to Revendrath, a place were people worse then Garrosh got a second chance.
A desperate, maybe naive hope that people can change? I’m not saying the Horde will change, but the alternative seems to be endless war and more people, both Alliance and Horde, dying.
Genn of all people managed to change his mind on the forsaken. While he doesnt seem to have any love for them, he isn’t outright hostile either and at one point thought they could live in relative peace.
I think your the one making stuff up. Velen never said the Horde wouldnt commit genocide, he just said they could change. Alexstraza never mentioned anything about captives, only that if the Horde were truly penitent she would forgive them.
Anduin didnt “forgive” anyone considering even now he is having the Alliance hunt Sylvanas. If anything he just stopped the war at least long enough so we could all focus on bigger threats. Namely, Slyvanas and N’zoth.
Because hes not a Monster and they had to deal with Varian and didn’t have time to deal with Saurfang(again). Again this speaks to Varians charcter not Saurfangs.
Tirion upon investigation determined that Arthas couldn’t be saved and destroyed his heart. Anduin still thought Garrosh could be saved even after he escaped, Probably still thinks it too even after all the damage he did after he escaped. Everyone of his decisions always leads to more alliance dying.
So he is completely unqualified to be running the Alliance in that case. As you stated he is Naieve and will only end up getting more alliance killed hoping the Horde can change.
Again more Hackney’d writing from Golden making Genn “the forsaken invaded my kingdom and killed my son who also has worgen anger” decide hey they are not so bad. just so he would agree with Anduins thinking. again this is forced and makes no sense.
No but Velen sure as hell shouldn’t believe the Horde will never change at this point. He had just watched history repeat itself and watched the Draenei’s closest allies get burnt alive because he thought they might.
Alexstraza as well if she knew the Horde had attempted to lock up Eyir and used her and the Valkyr to empower and create armies of Undead should be angry as well.
He forgave the Horde , He was never interested in defeating them only to get them to surrender. Even at Lordearon he was only looking for Sylvanas to surrender. Drazalor he wanted them to surrender. He was throwing Alliance lives away trying to get the Horde to just surrender.
I mean, we’ll probably just kill them as they come for us. As, we’re like, 5 races, and they’re only 1, as far as Kalimdor is concerned.
I don’t see why you should get a pass for trying to do the same thing we did, just because you’re incompetent at it.
Well, he was right. We DIDN’T betray them. We just straight up lost and managed to escape with our dying. We were already beyond being able to provide support when we left.
His father wouldn’t have been any LESS dead if we’d stayed. We just would have been dead too.
Hey, third time’s the charm!
Or both factions could have retreated on foot and both survived and Varian wouldn’t have needed to sacrifice himself. Or given a few more seconds the Alliance might have made it to Guldan before he sprung his trap and ended the invasion there.
Hard to say what would have happen that is just speculating about what ifs.
What we do know Is Sylvanas was already working with the Jailer at that point and wanted to feed him as many souls as possible. We also know that she wanted to provoke a war between both Alliance and Horde.
So maybe the Horde might have died, Maybe Varian would have survived. or maybe everyone would have died. But Sylvanas didn’t pull the Horde back for any of those reasons.
yeah, fool me one shame on you fool me twice shame of me. Fool me three or four times shame on…the writers?
Sadly blizzard can’t write a good war. I was actually keen on the Alliance actually starting this one. Having us going after Sylvanas for the broken shore to end the Horde once and for all. Only for it all to be for Naught when the black empire rose up while the two factions were weakened. Forcing us to work together one more time and find some common ground there.
Pretty sure that fact is a retcon, but that’s certainly what she was doing, now.
Yeah sadly blizzard loves to beat the Horde with the Villian stick even with the retcons.
Villains and Patsies. That pretty much sums up what Sylvanas’s Horde was through BfA.
I doubt it.
I think Danuser wanted a different road for Sylvanas, the hero road. But at some point for some reasons narratives had to be changed.
If Sylvanas is his pet character then he wouldn’t want her to go full hitler mode.
I really get some Garrosh feelings here, since with Garrosh there were also 2 devs who wanted two different directions for Garrosh but the hitler type was then the one that came through.
I don’t think that Danuser is responsible for that. At the end he is a team leader and thus is coordinating the team, not doing all decisions by himself.
He is probably more or less the moderator between the different people within the writing team who all have their own opinions and directions the want the story to go.
Some are sylvans fanois, some Anduin… what we know is, none of them are NE fans.
I don’t think, and I say it as a NE who hates! the writing team with every cell of my body, that Danuser is really the one to blame. At the end he has to mediate the peopels whishes and get the team to not kill each other.
I am VERY VERY convinced that the writing team meatings are probably as intense as these discussions are and at the end the team leader is there to mediate and not to deciide on his own over their heads.
TL:DR
I Think it is not fair to demonize Danuser for everything. At the end they have a story and can’t tell it because the rest of the wow dev team isn’t able to implement it due to time issues or funinding or whatever and they have to strip teh story apart.
What we know is that BFA was planned to be MUCH different and what we know is there were warfronts in Silvermoon and Barrens planned.
For me it looks like it was planned for the Alliance to retaliate extremely harsh, but as it allways is at the end the time is up before they could work on Alliance content.
I think the issue lies in that they were lacking a serious writer for the Alliance for a long time however that is why they brought Golden onto the team. However I do agree I don’t think she has any very little interest in Nightelves or really anything outside Anduins little inner circle.
She re wrote BFA to have the Horde as the Antagonist instead of the Alliance as she refused to have Anduin to ever do anything wrong. If Teldrassil(without the all the civilian deaths or even used as a trap for the Horde when they invade) had been a response to the Alliance attack lordearon I think both factions would have been happier. It also would have created that division in the alliance which would have been welcome for giving the Alliance a bit of inner turmoil.
Don’t agree.
Golden has her classic view on the Alliance as a good and happy light induced faction. It is ok to see it that way because we wuld have different races within the Alliance to have a more darker tone.
The problem is that these are not used.
We will see what happens now they led the path for a darker theme on the Alliance with the NEs for example draging the Alliance with them inter war but personally I’d say it depends on where the next expansion is set to go and if a bigger faction war could suite into the narrative.
With BFA just recently gone I think Blizzard might want to go on different routes again and thus faction war might not have a place in there.
On the other hand they could also now have the races act more independently. They led the path within the Alliance AND the Horde now with diferent factions wanting different things.
Personally and that is the issue:
SLs looks like a filler expansion to get some time between. I have little to no interest in what happens there and ratehr want to know how stuff outside develops.
So I am more or less waiting for 9.1 to drop before I consider bying shadowlands.
This is the issue with Anduin as he is used as the easy “Press when you need peace” excuse to end the faction war. He was used in MOP to sway his father and again in BFA. As long as he is in charge of the Alliance there is no way anyone will disagree with him and anyone who does is seen as going against the faction.
We need blizzard rid of the awful High king position and hopefully they get rid of Anduin at the same time either out of the Alliance or killed. I just don’t see either of these happening while golden is writing.
I like the Idea of shadowlands for the simple fact that its stepping away from the worst expansion they have released and gives them a way to fix alot of the screwups they made by the time we go back to Azeroth. There is some interesting stuff going on there enough to distract me for a bit.
Asking the belves to give up their holy sacred place that they need to survive would probably start the next war though.
You mean like how invading Night Elven sacred land with the goal to steal it from them, and genocide there people (not unlike the native american genocide) isn’t?
That resulted in a war in the game.
I’m no Anduin defender, but I think he can be forgiven somewhat for this, because I sort of got the impression that a good deal of the Alliance fleet was supposed to be assumed destroyed during the Jaina fight when a pretty large number of Alliance boats are sent up in flames in the first phases.
It makes Dazar’alor look a lot worse for him, yeah, but it eases off the craziness of “I sent literally the entire Alliance fleet to chase Sylvanas’ one boat to Nazjatar.” I might be assuming too much, but it’s a less bizarre outcome, at least?
He still sent the “entire” fleet, he just did it after a botched attack disastrously lowered the number of boats included in the phrase ‘entire Alliance fleet’.
If I get 8/10 of my children killed in a tragi-comedic mishap with a lawnmover and a rattlesnake, it doesn’t mean I somehow made less of a mistake by shooting all of my remaining children into the sun.
I have no doubt Anduin would have blundered into getting any number of ships wrecked by the most obvious ploy of all time (Nazjatar), but thankfully he was spared a greater scale of indignity by his previous unforced errors.