nearly all of sods raids and all of retail have in common ways to lessen the difficulty or gear up outside of the “hard mode” to gear up and pass checks that way.
scarlet enclave doesnt have that aside from 1 piece every 3 weeks and a pitiful amount of gear dropping off each boss and only 1 difficulty.
thats the main problem with the tuning for gear you might get in the future.
if youre only downing 2 bosses per lockout like some and you have to bring extra people to the “tuned for 20 man” that isnt quite tuned for a realistic 20 man, youre straining the loot even more.
none of this is fair to people of less than above avg skill .
The core issue is that sod is a older person version of wow, most have jobs and kids and as such cannot commit each week to a specific day, let alone 2-3 days of 3+ hours to raid. My discord has built up over 350 pugs in this situation and we all raid different days regularly, however with SE I can’t even get 30 of us to come. It’s too long and too hard for the average Andy to do top dps to beat enrages.
That being said, nothing wrong with progression raids… HOWEVER this is assuming that EVERY raid lockout is the SAME group of people that get some loot and eventually will hit power levels to clear. This is not the case for majority of SOD, most people go into a group and pick a new group based on a time that works for them. Too guilds are even having to pug and loot goes to randoms
Mythic LoU, the current retail raid, has a 24x higher clear count than 20 man groups in SE. If that doesn’t tell you this raid is delusionally overtuned I don’t know what will.
I love it. Its the final phase and there is some difficulty here. Im so happy to be actually progressing through a raid to wrap up SoD. And not just blasting it 1st week and feeling done right away.
well, this isn’t welfare. this is the 8th tier of raiding in a 20 year old game.
you have to be a little “up there” to be clearing this after one day of progression. The true wow experience is months of progression, not one-night farms.
remember it’s the final tier so it must last for … ever
The average skill level of a SoD raider though is also 24x lower than a Mythic raider lol the enrage timers on some of the later fights are definitely not tuned for 20 players in their current state, but the mechanics themselves aren’t exactly difficult. The biggest issue currently is people have spent 2 months in easy mode Naxx with all the borrowed power scaling, and now they’ve got to deal with mechanics on top of that which really haven’t been present at all in SoD since Sunken Temple. Majority of the time you’ve been able to zerg the boss and/or lower the dificulty to just zerg the boss.
i disagree it feels good to have some level of challenge for once. you have infinite time to clear it. SoD is permanent and this is the last phase. If you want to do something else instead of raiding thats an opportunity cost that is personal to you. I on the other hand enjoy investing time in my hobby.
You are free to invest as much time your hobby as you wish. You are also free to make the raid harder for yourself if its too easy for you in a nerfed state (Don’t bring consumes, WBs, less players, etc).
Also if you want a challenge retail is there for you. Go try mythic, because the mechanics of a mythic raid are far more challenging than any mechanic you’ll find in SoD.
i do, i choose to raid it with 20. what you describe as a problem is in fact a feature. slow gear acquisition means the life of the raid last longer and being “tuned for 20man” incentives better play. the time investment argument falls flat as you can raid the same amount per week and both eventually progress and develop the muscle memory to better your personal performance. the people complaining largely want instant gratification where they get geared out and then quit the game in a timely matter. which is a fine perspective if they are honest both with themselves and others about their motive.
and blizzard has largely compromised with these people in allowing for flex raid sizes, “free” tier on a tri-weekly (down from a sextal), and eventually an ICC style stacking buff. this deviates from the classic paradigm as you pointed out. so im going to throw the retail insult back in your face. if you want retail catch up mechanics go play retail.
Or they have attempted the raid and can easily see that for a 20 man raid the hp values and enrage timers are overtuned. Aggrend has already acknowledged they went overboard with the hp and enrage timers and said they will be changing this reset.
The major complaints are not “I’m not good enough to move out of the fire quick”.
It is “we brought 30 purple parsers in full nax BiS, we executed mechs perfectly, and still couldn’t kill the boss before we hit enrage timer”.
A feature the vast majority openly dislikes. ST proved this as well.
Another “you’ll quit after one raid clear anyway” doom post. Are you also projecting?
Its extremely obvious this raid as a whole isn’t tuned for 20 players.
People aren’t going to be progressing this raid at its current tuning. They’ll hit a brick wall week after week, become demoralized, and quit. We’re literally already seeing this.
Again, is this projection? I’ve not seen one single poster on this subject asking for SE nerfs so they can quit the game. They’re quitting the game because SE isn’t fun to play.
I don’t personally want any of these things. I want a raid with the tuning equivalent of normal LoU.
No one was asking for free stuff outside of raid, they’re asking for a better tuned raid. That was Blizzards response instead of giving players what they actually asked for.
i would if SE was like 0HM naxx i would probably be quiting next week. the gear is pointless if there is nothing to do with it.
and blizzard has been slowly making adjustments to tune it as such. your original complaint is about gear acquisition no mention of insufficient testing. it was also intentionally set to be hard thats why they have a preplanned ICC buff coming if the need arises.
good? if they dont want to invest the time in progressing their time is better spent elsewhere.
i think your the one projecting here. SE is really fun and the challenge is part of that. some people enjoy some level of challenge. its a deviation from the solved game issue that classic has had as a whole.
and 6. they’ve tuned the raid several times in the past 2 weeks and are continuing to do so. like whats your complaint as they are doing what you want in a calculated manner. like either youre complaining about gear or expect the raid to be 100% completable with gear from the previous raid tier by the 50%tile (which has never been the case for new content in classic). Like the “hard boss” is 6th out of 8 which is pretty standard for a blizzard raid where its the late raid bosses that block prog. twin emps in AQ40, Saph/4hm in naxx.
Yes which is why i fail to see why the OP is complaining they are making calculated adjustments on top of a mercy mechanic they already have planned.
And i call BS on that as they can bring 40 blue and green parsers and down the content fine. 30 purple parses are clearing the content.
No, its entirely more plausible people were wanting to walk in the first week and expecting a full clear and just arent being honest about that fact for whatever reason.
spend 30 hours as the best guild in the world with 20 ppl, or get stuck at boss 1 or 2 as a good but normal-hour player. Or zerg it with 40 because you can. Someone didnt think this through.
So another person doom posting out of pure projection. Why am I not surprised.
They are having to tune like this because there wasn’t external testing If they had ptr tested the raid it wouldn’t have launched in the state it did.
Aren’t you worried about people quitting? Oh wait, no, your worried about yourself quitting if the raid isn’t a challenge to you. You have avenues to make it a challenge without gatekeeping other players, but you choose to not do that.
Says the one projecting about people quitting, then admitting he’d quit if the raid was easy.
That they’d have done this before the raid launched if they had a ptr. That they’ve 180’d on their philosophy for what SoD was supposed to be. That they’re doubling down on it.
Yes, it has. My guild was able to clear pretty much every raid by the second week of release without having ANY raid member in full bis from the previous. We also have people below 50% parsers.
The earlier bosses are hard blocks as well, especially if you bring the 20 people Blizzard said this is tuned for. My guild killed Twin emp’s first week of AQ40, and comparing a raid with hardmodes like Naxx to a raid with 1 difficulty isn’t really a fair comparison, of course people got stuck on HM 4 Saph on week 2, seal ranks were capped.
No, its thought through. that sounds like a normal prog raid with flex options release to me. they are always over tuned and the top guilds break their face on it. Thats been true since vanilla minus the flex option.
If they had ptr tested the raid it wouldn’t have launched in the state it did.