What MT has taught me as a Guardian Druid

So I completed this challenge pre-nerfs and yes, it was over tuned. But what they done now is perfectly fine, more people are completing it, so maybe you just need to learn your classes better.

Before MT I thought it was going to be easy, not LFR levels of free loot easy, but at least by having a level 50+ of every class I might actually get the mount, but boy was I wrong. I quickly realised you need to have enchants, gem sockets, the right stats and most importantly actual in depth knowledge of your classes.

When I first started guardian I could not even get past P1, it took me about 50 attempts to do so and I was doing it with 4 infernals. And what I learned very quickly was that tanking P1 was never going to work, you can DPS in tank spec, but you lose too much health, you can tank in and out of the boss aura in tank spec, but you don’t pull enough DPS, so what was left? figuring out a rotation that would put use to all my spells, including all the spells of my chosen affinity.

After ~200 pulls later I finally had it down, finally learnt how to use moonkin form while tanking to effectively raise my DPS by some double the amount and learned that I am tankier than I thought I was.

Before MT I would run a dungeon, do a big pull, pop my CD’s and spam thrash and ironfur, it was effective and easy, but I would regularly run into issues by not having resources to rebirth someone, or use my frenzied regen, I was too busy spamming ironfur to survive the big pulls, until I learnt that I don’t need to spam ironfur.

Halfway through my attempts I went and done some more research, looked into diminishing returns, got a better feel for it all and realised, you can survive just fine with 4 adds without even using ironfur, we have regrowth that can be used when the adds are dead, we can pop 1 stack of ironfur if you want and still have resources for regen (or in a group setup, rebirth).

No I didn’t use barkskin on the 4 adds either, I learned to save resources and CD’s and use moonkin form while tanking the adds to kill them faster and get back onto the boss quicker, I learned just how tanky a tank can be without actually tanking or using CD’s.

And than it all clicked. You can survive the first annihilate without any defenses, you can pop a regrowth and dot the boss on P2, outside of bear form. You can really push the limits of tanking to get more than you ever thought possible.

And this learning, this coming from someone who can time M18+, a tank who can tank mythic raids, someone who at times has had an IO score in the top 5% worldwide still learning how to completely push your class and spec.

I see so many druids complaining about wanting to use moonkin, but why? It’s a talent choice on the third row, how can you say you are a good druid if you won’t even use an entire talent row? It’s like asking DH’s to not take spirit bomb for M+ because they don’t need self healing, it’s the healers job to heal, that isn’t right and neither is using a druid who doesn’t want to swap forms to get the most out of their classes.

When you are going solo as either spec, do you ever stop to use regrowth on yourself? Do you ever think what could be a better setup than simply ‘BiS top DPS’, like taking Lunar Inspiration while running around in the overworld doing WQ’s or dailies? Maybe swap from Brutal Slash to Primal Wrath at the same time? Maybe take Resto Affinity so you can off heal on grievous week?

Or do some of you just take stock standard setup and never change no matter what M+ week it is or what content you are doing and wonder why you are not doing as well as you think you can?

MT isn’t about just being a tank, or just being a DPS, or just being a healer, it’s about using every spell in the book for push yourself and if you can’t do it, than that’s OK, maybe you are just not as good as you think you are, or maybe you just don’t know how good you can be if you just used everything you had.

Take the BM challenge as a perfect example, you can interrupt Tugar and save your pet from dying, but that CD on that spell is shorter than your interrupt, so what do you do? In a dungeon or raid you just do nothing, you expect someone else to interrupt and do a rotation, but you have no one.

I remember doing a high key in UR on my rogue, the tank (M+ rating puts them as one of the best tanks in the game) told me to interrupt this and that, but I ran out of spells, interrupt on CD, gouge on CD, blind on CD, so the tank took a big hit and died. What did they say? They didn’t yell at me on discord or tell me I am bad, they simply reminded me “You have vanish and cheap shot”, and he was right, I could have vanished, popped a cheap shot and interrupted that one spell to save the group.

It’s the same with the BM challenge, you have your pet stun, but you also have traps, you can throw a trap to interrupt enemies, you can fear beast the big worm, you can feign death your pet to pull aggro and than feign death yourself when your pet is back in combat and in some cases the cast stops because they are targeting an enemy who is ‘dead’.

That’s FOUR chances to ‘interrupt’ and enemy, your interrupt spell, ice trap, pet stun and feign death, and a fifth if the enemy is a beast. You are dreaming if you think you can get past these challenges or push high keys or mythic raiding if you don’t think about using spells in this manner, even in group content you still need to use spells in a way you would never have thought possible, use your defenses, use the right talents and not always the hardest hitting ones, use every spell you have to ensure you are not just hitting hard, but surviving also.

It’s obvious, some people want an easy mode MT, some people just haven’t done the research and simply don’t know how to play their class effectively, others are just bad. What MT has taught me is that I was not as good as I thought I was as I was not using 100% of my spec and class and you can learn this too.

Or you can just keep whining about it being too hard and not possible when in fact, it is possible as it has been done.

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Nothing to add except I agree with you :grin:

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In addition to what you said, the Renown stamina boosts work in the mage tower.

The Xylem challenge was impossible for me to do at lvl 50 because I was missing that 10% stamina. So I grinded to lvl 60 and renown 59. It’s honestly stupid that they didn’t disable that and tune around not having it. And most people don’t seem to know about it.

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all true but i need a mouse with more buttons

Oh wow I did not know this, might also be why those at lower levels are struggling some. 10% stamina, especially for tanks, is massive.

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The L33T have spoken.

Buy unlimited tokens to fund purchases of gear that was not required originally.

In other words, P1 is nothing like it was in Legion. Why not change more mob abilities to make it even less like it was in Legion, if the less it is like it was in Legion, the better it is to give you something to complain about other people over?

That’s good to know, so no point in even bothering is it’s stacked against 50’s to keep them from finishing it at all.

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You said it yourself. You were the top 5% at one point for tanking. And you struggled really hard with while
Using cheese gear.

So basically the mage tower is for the super elite players and if your not that go F off is what is occurring.

Good business model

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went and tried it out and holy hell ya it’s true. nice job blizz. the only real mess up with mage tower…

What’s the number 1 stat for tanks? I’ve seen guardian druids do it in full PVP gear, in other words, maximising their versatility. Min/max with old gear can help, but it’s not needed.

Getting the right stats is what all mythic players do to get the most out of their class, like how for my feral setup I have crit on almost every piece of gear and sit close to 40% crit. Running mythic raids we all pop flasks and weapon oil as a bare minimum, and if you want to really push you use potions and armour kits and always ensure you have the best enchants and gems.

Just because it is older content does not mean you don’t ned the best gear you can get, and yes, the original MT was designed the same way, you would not expect players in the original MT to just get whatever, they still had to fund themselves to push content to get the best gear, it’s absolutely no different now. Just stop making excuses.

Does it matter? Does it really matter? None of our classes are like they were in Legion, but people are still completing MT. If it can be done by this many people, than all you are doing is making excuses as to why you can’t do it now.

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This man gets it! The mage tower is completable by everyone but for almost everyone it’s a learning experience in some way.

Too many cry overtuned when they can’t do it, but do nothing to improve their strategy or play. These people don’t seem to realize that other people are completing the tower, and if they can do it, so can you! It’s called rising up to the challenge.

And for others it’s been an ego check. If your ego does not match your skill, the tower WILL humble you.

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You couldn’t do it without timewalking gear, but you expect others should be able to?

Everything else you have written here is just more evidence that it was tuned for only the best players in the game with specialized timewalking gear AND the renown stamina bonus.

That’s just dishonest.

Yes. It really matters that it takes 3 times as long to do as it did in Legion, when Guardian was considered one of the hardest to do.

If even you couldn’t do it without timewalking gear, you’re just posting here to puff your ego by claiming anybody should be able to do something you didn’t actually do without benefits you claim they shouldn’t need.

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i mean, it is overtuned…

i am enjoying it, but it was set in place when we had legendaries and artifact weapons to use in it… you can not use either now… i have about 35 attempts right now on the Ret Paladin challenge and the best ive done is 43%.

this was a hail mary attempt to get people to come back to the game after they have been leaving in droves… they failed at that attempt. the forums have been on fire for a week with the cries of mage tower anger.

yes it is completable if you farm the absolute best gear and spend a ton of gold… im hoping that wasnt their design, if it was then they deserve the anger they have gotten.

they should have allowed covenant abilities in the tower since we do not have the artifact weapons and no legendaries but that would have probably take a little work which blizz is not exactly known for doing.

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I’d kind of like to do this but I haven’t even tried the MT so it wouldn’t be funny at all.

Ty for your post. Even though I probably won’t try the MT any time soon, if ever, you did give me some good ideas to try.

I got mine done in some 200 attempts. I was hitting 50 attempts before I even left P1 and I had specific gear farmed up for it.

Like I said, there are people using SL gear and completing it, and completing the harder ones. Sure having specific catered gear helps, but it’s not needed and certainly wasn’t why I was struggling as much as I was.

50 or so attempts to leave P1, that’s not a gear issue, that’s a player issue, I was the issue. I done research, I practiced, I got better, I put in ~15-20 hours of either MT attempts or researching into what I could do better.

You can’t just rock up and try to get it done in two dozen attempts and than complain it’s too hard.

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https://puu.sh/Iw7Tf/d31902bb60.jpg

This was my gear set on doing the Bear MT. Literally no purchased gear and only three slots weren’t my regular tanking gear (which is poorly optimized for bear since it’s just boomkin gear).

Of my slots which weren’t ordinary Shadowlands gear.

One slot was an artifact which anyone can get. One was an heirloom, which anyone can get. The third was a trinket which took like 5 minutes of soloing Hellfire Citadel to get.

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I completed it 2x in Legion, druid remains largely unchanged since then.

The fact you need to be boomkin to push the first phase in a tanking challenge isn’t a “knowing your class better” problem.

It’s a developer who didn’t test the content problem

Also, not sure why people are so proud of the “I did it pre-nerf” the current nerfs were laughable at best. oh 10% LOL

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Why is using the tools available to your class an issue?

10% on a DPS race is gigantic. I did mine post-nerf and it meant I skipped the 4th annihilate entirely.

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Wrong button in the morning lol. All I said you did not complete it pre-nerf as it was nerfed 11th of dec and you completed it 12th of dec.

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What nerfs? Changes made are barely even considered that.

Still is.

nor is it now.

its very similar, but druids are different now. we have heart of the wild. I’d bet if legion had heart of the wild… druids would have been using it.

The mob abilities for the bear challenge are exactly the same abilties.

or like, people can read this and understand how to get past it themselves.

many others have. lots of videos of people doing in pure shadowlands gear.

you see heres the thing, just because he had timewalking gear, doesn’t mean he can’t do it without.
If you were reading and following along, the issue wasn’t the gear. it was how he was playing his class.

you dont need boomy to push the phase, but we have talents that we didn’t have in legion, powerful talents.

10% is a lot, for many 10% = another smash with 0 cds to deal with it.

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