What made you decide against maining a Paladin?

Just came back to the game after a long break. I started playing in BFA and spent the entire expansion just levelling and learning classes. I never got anywhere and decided that if I was going to come back, I’d need to choose a main with all 3 roles so I can actually experience endgame content. Narrowed it down to Paladin and Monk because I’m not a fan of Druids. I want to do everything: raids, mythic+, and PvP.

What made you choose a Monk over a Paladin?

1 Like

I played paladin all through BFA and then switched to my monk for 9.0 and 9.1. I didn’t like the change to ret that made it so you would just press a long list of buff spells before actually doing damage. I also do not like the change to make it so holy used holy power.

In BFA my guild also didn’t have a monk for the 5% physical damage.

I mean, I guess it depends on what role you want to play.

If the role is DPS, as a paladin you can straight up forget it in Mythic+. There’s absolutely no reason to take a Retribution paladin into mythic+ content ever, I mean, unless you’re friends with the person, even though they do fantastic DPS right now. You can probably go Ret in raids but certainly wouldn’t be wanted at any serious level.

Theres a number of factors going on here.

For M+, paladins are the only melee DPS who don’t offer the group near mandatory utility or buff the damage of the rest of the party ([heroism, battle rez, shroud,] [battle shout, chaos brand, mystic touch]).

For raid, similar situation. There’s a limitation on how many melee can realistically dps a boss during spread mechanics and that means you have to maximize which ones offer something of value to the raid besides DPS numbers.

If you aren’t dead set on DPS, holy paladin and prot are welcome pretty much everywhere. If you can tolerate every single ability having a cooldown of some kind and your gameplay essentially being a whack-a-mole of slamming whatever pops up as available and having Pink as your class color.

As for the “why monk”;

Shadowlands reason - You don’t have to be Kyrian as a monk, and you do have to be Kryian as a Paladin if Prot/Ret in M+.

Kyrian soulbinds are super annoying. You are either running Mechanikos and having an annoying half handicap robot showing up and knocking mobs out of the AOE pile or pulling aggro from packs you didn’t want or maybe you are Pelogos who hides easter egg orbs that he expects you to collect in the middle of your burst dps window hidden under mobs in fog of battle.

  1. Both of those are cancer
  2. Mechanikos is miles ahead of the other Kryian choices in terms of power, meaning every time you spec swap you have to go to the conduit forge.

BM/WW Monks can play Necro and arguably any of the other covenants as well, and avoid the most annoying soulbinds in the game while also using separate binds for separate specs.

Class reasons for monk

You’re one of the fastest moving DPS or tanks with powerful burst movement on very short cooldowns. Aka “fun.”

  • Tigers Lust on a 30sec CD
  • Roll x2
  • Transcendence
  • WW specifically, Windowalking and Flying Serpent Kick.

Utility

  • Ring of Peace + Paralysis allows many popular dungeon skips without using Wo
  • Paralysis as a tank is great for not having to ask pugs to cc something
  • Ring of Peace is incredible for necrotic clearing, kite tanking, saving someone in danger, or function as a makeshift bubble on yourself, and its on a very short cd.
  • The tankiness of other tanks comes and goes. The tankiness of Brewmaster is forever.
  • Mystic touch.

Play

  • Jade Wind and Spinning Crane Kick can be used while moving. None of that “can’t leave the consecrate” crap.
  • You will never accidently pull something with a shield that bounced 30 yards into the next pack.
  • You can troll the heck out of everyone else with touch of death
  • You can decide without anyone elses input which Encrypted mob you’re getting with touch of death.
  • Cheesing boss mechanics w/ zen meditation or reflecting the mechanic with touch of karma
  • Genuinely engaging dynamic rotations. Many tanks have awful situations where their main builder has a cooldown (DH, paladin) or is talented out completely (warrior), or in DK’s case, relies on a precious resource. Brew doesn’t have this problem. You can easily keep Jade Wind around you 100% of the time for free and your spammables rely on fast-building energy. For WW, the mastery encourages never pressing the same button twice, which creates a weaving pattern that feels good.
  • Stat priority is the same across all 3 monk specs, so you can pretty much use the same gear for everything.
  • Healing orbs mechanic is kind of great. Not mandatory / tedious the way it is for DH.
  • You don’t really need to change builds for WW/Brew between ST and AoE.

Speed is really the biggest one for me though. Zoom zoom.

3 Likes

Because Monke flip.

There is no context.

Paladin is the one tank I have trouble wrapping my brain around. Also of the six it was the one that gave me the most trouble in the mage tower. I find DK and DH in a similar realm but nowhere near as bad.

My monk was my first character when I picked this game up and it will always be my main. Also with the way things have been since Legion ended I have no desire to pick up and seriously play an alt.

This is only about tanking- it’s what I do so I won’t comment on other specs.

Playing both a monk and a Paladin mainly in m+ I can say both are awesome and have strengths and weaknesses. Paladins have a very nice gameplay flow with but do require 30% haste before it’s smooth but once you have that it’s probably the best flow of all the tank rotations. Before 30% though it can feel a little off. Both monk and pally have amazing utility for tanks - Paladin has a nice benefit of being a better pug tank with the amount of off healing it can do mixed with blessing of sacrifice and blessing of protection. Monk has amazing mob control - even clash is pretty amazing. Monk is a little easier to play but not by much so it really comes down to aesthetics and if you care about class fantasy. Other than that you will be happy with either!

1 Like

Forgot to post on my Tank

Because my friends told me to go monk when I started playing the game and I never looked back. Seriously never looked back.

You say that Ret Pally is unwelcome in mythic+, but you don’t mention the difficulty for monk healers finding groups.

I think it really depends on what level.

If you are a healer with a pulse below +17 you aren’t going to wait long to get invited to an M+ group, monk or not. Sure, it will be harder to get invited to very high keys over healers that more easily do damage.

If you are a KSM rated ret paladin you are still going to get rejected from lowbie keys.

1 Like

Jokes on you. With Codex (Tank trinket from TZ), you can pull from 100 yards away :smiley:

Anyway, @OP, monks are fun.
I got my Brewmaster to 3k IO the other day as a pugger. I love Brewmaster. I even abandoned my Bear and Hpala, and I thought those 2 were gonna be my mains. Well, they were, until last 3 weeks of 9.1 when I made a Monk. I got to KSM in 2 weeks cuz I loved it and I played it a lot. Playing Brewmaster this season however. I love it.

Very very true. Offhealing is insane as paladin. Brewmaster simply does not have that kind of group utility. No bubble taunt either.

This is the part I disagree with. I Do think beocming a decent Brewmaster is a lot harder than becoming a decent Prot paladin. They play very very differently too. Like, HoA enrage dogs, paladins get 1 shot, monks do not. The hardest part about Brewmaster is learning how to effectively manage your Stagger. Ppalas simply do not really have any complicated mechanics imho.

Today, I have abandoned my paladin and my bear. I got them both to 2.5+ IO last season (21-22 keys) and spent A LOT OF time on them. All artifact apps, mounts, transmog and so on, but I do not look back. Brewmaster is just so much fun imho

1 Like

Mostly because holy felt clunky and not really fun for me at all, even though it was strong. Additionally, Ret has never appealed to me even once over the last 17 years. Recent iterations of ret are better imo, but it does feel like a slower rogue using a 2h.

Protection is cool, and if I ever decide to play tank seriously, I wouldn’t mind having one as an alt.

Paladins IMO are a much better-designed class both thematically, talents, and rotation. Monks are just a fun class to play with some really cool abilities and mechanics. Maybe I would main a paladin if I could play it as a night elf, I dunno … maybe the reason I mained a monk for so long is that I believed that eventually it would finally some design changes like other classes got through the years and finally be what we all thought it could be back during MoP.

monk is the funnest healer in da game