What made WotLK/BC more appealing?

WoW was supposedly at their peak in subscribers during BC/WotLK. I’m not saying everyone enjoyed BC and WotLK more than other expansions (I loved WotLK) and I’m definitely not saying there haven’t been areas of improvement since then (raid scaling, m+, and others etc offer more ways to play), but I was wondering what reason(s) players attributed to that drop.

Personally, I blame “welfare epics” and the increasing amount they’ve been used. These were items offered not from a skill perspective but from just playing. Some examples would be world quests and mythic+ (and the weekly chest) without making it in time. By giving out this gear so freely it led to quasi-equality of gear among characters regardless of skill or experience.

This led to requiring increased reliance on some other way to differentiate between character “power” but which had to be unrelated to gear. Unfortunately that left “time spent playing” as a new metric (there aren’t many other options) - requiring reputation grinding via daily quests, and artifact weapons/necklaces/cloaks.

Without this system (that is to say without the “grinds” required for artifact power - via item level and/or essences and/or reputation) a new level 120 could do world quests, run a few Mythic+ that weren’t close to making it in time (heck in most cases people don’t even care about the end loot which is silly), and in a short period of time be virtually equal in power (though probably not in skill) to a character that had been played for months. That seems a bit unfair.

If there should be a way to differentiate power-levels of characters (which some may disagree with) then there aren’t many options once you’ve equalized gear. From my perspective, rolling back the amount of “free gear” eliminates the need for so much “grinding” to separate power levels. Some of this was originally implemented to allow players to be able to increase in power regardless of their play style (i.e. if you didn’t have 25 friends). But with so much flexibility now with accessing content (raid scaling for sizes, LFR, mythic+, etc) it’s outdated. One of the reasons WoW replaced EQ in the first place was the fact that EQ had so many time sinks. For those that remember some parts of EQ, camping mobs with 18 hour spawn timers just to finish quests was ridiculous. Time spent actually playing the aspects you enjoy is more fun than time spent sitting around and/or doing chores.

That’s just my opinion and I’d love to hear other opinions. Maybe it’s the amount of other MMORPGs (and/or their newer game engines) or the storytelling, or something else.

/As an aside, this isn’t to suggest WotLK and BC didn’t have any grinds (or stupid concepts like attuning and key rings - please… never again…) but grinds like netherwing faction and the argent tournament were pretty much just for vanity items (like mounts - and another dumb idea was making those take up inventory space - argh, another nightmare). There were others, but there were far fewer and far less required than the current game has.

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Well… the welfare epics started in TBC.

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In some ways, yes, though I’d argue they became more accessible during WotLK.

Even then, those items were mostly PVP with stats (like resilience) that didn’t put them on par with PVE content items (until later arena seasons, when they were above some content, but below current content usually as far as I recall). That’s just my memory though - I could be overly nostalgic. From a PVP perspective, they were below ratings items from arena.

Those items usually required either just playing X matches in Arena or grinding enough honor. Badges/justice/valor points at least required completing things (in comparison to say going into arena naked and/or afking in AV). But I do see your points.

That said - in some ways those were (as far as my memory goes - it was a long time ago) just purples for the sake of purple (and at best catch-up items). Currently you can get ilvl 465 items from 4 world quests. And that’s not even counting what you get from just completing a high level mythic (in your chest).

back then for me at least, people in the break areas talked about it playing WoW. some time after 2012, i wouldn’t meet anyone IRL who mentions they play

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Expansions actually meant lots of new stuff, now they just mean a heap of things get taken away from us and then we have the privilege of earning them back again to maybe feel whole.

I’m kinda sick of my characters feeling horrible/hollow for such a large percentage of the game.

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Hi Virus!

Small world

I wasn’t talking about pvp items. I was talking about the dungeon that came with the Sunwell. Magister’s Terrace. Also, the vendor that sold epic items in Shattrah.

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Welfare epics started in BC with arena gear and reputation vendors.

WotLK was the height of popularity, not BC and WotLK was far more casual than either BC or Vanilla and full of welfare epics. What made WotLK more popular was that it was easily accessible (aka casual) with the dungeon finder introduced and easy aoe spammeable dungeons on top of the Lich King story that everyone wanted to experience.

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What was really funny though is that lorewise, everyone kept saying that Sargeras was in fact the very LAST boss of wow, that after we saved the universe from demons everyone would now be singing, happy, it would all be rainbows and lollipops…

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I can understand that - and in some ways, being more casual (i.e. instead of time sinks in EQ) - really helped WoW take over the market. Does that mean catering more to casual players would help retake some of the market share?

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Not being the “CHAMPEEEON, AZZUUURITE CHAMEEPON!” was a nice part. Being a witness and part of the battle and not the superman to the fall of the Lich King was wonderous.

It was a continuation of warcraft MMO story, classes still felt somewhat unique before Cata and later expansions gave every class everything. There weren’t little fox furries in the horde and night elf’s didn’t have mages.

Being able to buy flying post grind instead of doing a stupid achievement grind was nice A little coin after the 1st time around back in B.C. was better than my slow death of stupid world daily rep chores price gouged by contract AH monopoly’s and WoW tokens.

There weren’t any race locked BS either, DK starting zone was amazing and personally the scourge is my fav enemy so I loved it. Can’t bother the long High Mountain or Dark Iron dwarf grind because I gotta do my stupid mobile app table missions and do mythic’s because I can’t just get pick what I want from PVP vendors anymore. We had first aid still and didn’t come back from a WoW hiatus to see things ripped from the ground up from B.C. to WOTLK.

I could go on but I’m gonna stop before I quit retail lol.

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Mmos were more popular… Also fighting the big bads from war3.

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I’m not really sure it was better or what exactly made those expansions more appealing but I will say one thing. A lot of complaints about current WoW are rental systems and having to grind to be powerful. If we take in mind that these systems were put in place to avoid class/role specific legendaries that only certain classes got then to me it’s kind of questionable. Basically only certain classes/specs got to feel powerful back then while everyone else just sat back and looked helpless.

Imagine how bad it felt during BC if you were a rogue in Black Temple or just ANY rogue for instance. Not having warglaives probably felt really crappy. Or not having the legendary bow as a hunter in Sunwell. (or better yet how stupid it felt to give these up in the next expansion) I’m just trying to illustrate some of the problems with the old systems and why the current ones were put into place. Me personally, I love the new system over what we had before. Now any class/spec can feel powerful appose to just a few. This was the exact reason they implemented the cloak in MoP and every other legendary/artifact into the game thereafter.

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Now? No. It doesn’t matter what WoW does… it’s a declining aging game that’s no longer “cool” or appeals to Gen Y/Z.

They lost all footing in Cata when they reverted and tried to go back to “hard dungeons” after listening to the vocal minority player base complaining about welfare epics and casualization. What happened was instant queues from WotLK jumped almost immediately to 45 minutes queues. Wotlk had 0-5 minute queues for DPS for 15 minute dungeons… Cata had 45 minute queues for DPS for 45 minute dungeons. No one wants to go from 2-3 dungeons in an hour to over an hour for a single dungeon.

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Warcraft 3 lore was a big one, as was going to Northrend at the time.

To me one thing that keeps people logging in long term is the bonds between people. And much of that started/came from casual socialization. Places for casuals to socialize or meet new players has been taken away to a degree.

Cata took the social aspect from leveling away. Recently, focus on world quest gear, and M+ took away casual dungeon grinding. Say what you will about what you don’t like about queing, gearing out from dungeons was a way for casual premades to bond. The M+ timer is anti-casual.

Changes to pvp bg gear acquisition took away a large incentive as well for casual pvp’ers.

Finally, Blizz allowing realms, and faction population on certain realms to dwindle to such a degree without any lifeline or support for the loyal players that still do play on those realms is … i don’t have the words for that… other than its infuriating. And that certainly affects bonds that players had with others who aren’t there on those realms anymore.

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The stories were continuing on from WC3, and so they had much greater appeal.

Wrath was popular because

  • It was easy as ****. Wrath was the most casual and simplistic the game has ever been. It was very easy to get into as a new player. The game has gotten increasingly convoluted and unattractive to new players as time has gone on.
  • It finished the story of Warcraft 3. The Lich King was basically the final boss of WoW for a lot of people.
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Yep. Had the purple merciless gladiator set on my paladin. Just spammed bg’s, and got the set pretty fast. The game was still new to a lot of people during TBC, Wolk years also which helped in it’s appeal.

I would like to be playing on your server then :exploding_head:. Emissary rewards on my server are limited to 445, equal to Normal raid loot, AND scale with your characters ilevel, so you only get items 5-7 ilevels above your current average. Fresh 120s don’t get 445 from emissariesalone for a couple of months, since there are probably only 2 gear emissaries a week. Besides, the “catchup gear” was demanded by the raiding community, so they could get their alts raiding ASAP. :speak_no_evil::hear_no_evil::see_no_evil:

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Most people confuses the thrills of your best time in wow with being the best xpac.

That is mostly what all that rant means.

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