Yep, our characters are a device we use to experience a story already told, that’s why the loyalist path was kinda odd and not suited for an mmo, in fact, even if nobody clears raids and dungeons the “champions” already did.
Edit: anybody knows why system removes automatically a quoted post?
I’d settle with not being a Schizophrenic horde, shoved down the rabbit hole to push plot lines and whatever instanced content the dev’s are currently thinking of.
Personally I believe it should follow a simple but easy to follow guide to horde vs alliance who’s good protocol?
Reckoning back to what each of these factions represent and how each race acts it should be obvious. Most horde races have a dark streak in them, blood rage, undeath, dark culture, and vices. To a long time player it’s quite obvious that certain horde races have much more upfront troubles with their dark streak, orcs with blood rage, undead with no emotion.
The alliance races are far from removed from the darkness inside them however wow has had a hard time showing the alliance darkness for what it is. Dark iron are cruel, mechagnomes will likely be coldly logical at times, void elves suffer from madness, ect.
If it was up to me personally I would see a faction of red of noble savages who make mistakes from the dark elements that affect their lives. A Orc in combat so consumed by bloodlust he slays innocent life, undead so cold after a dark memory he takes this out on others, ect. But these are a growing people after such a mistake they would move to fix it themselves. The horde would be noble but flawed and trying to fight against certain dark natures in their souls.
The alliance however should be the illusion of white shining light and glory. In the forefront the alliance does no wrong, but it is only because underneath the alliance covers up their darkness they pretend it doesn’t exist… A worgen goes on a wild rampage consumed by his nature? This is not the alliance, it didn’t ever happen… A dark iron uses cruelty over a innocent, “We will look into it…” The alliance has great potential to have great darkness hiding within the light, ignored by the light because they see themselves only as heroes but the truth is not so black and white.
The problem is that for a dark thematic to work you need some kind of adult storytelling, current wow has violent and evil moments but it is cartoon evil, feels like a bag of potato chips, when you open it it’s just air.
Being told, already told. In terms of a fictional universe, it’s honestly the same difference.
It can also be argued that Alliance and Horde both have their own assortments of heroes and champions that exist within the lore. We just play the role. They just remain unnamed as to not spoil player experience.
Most Horde players like the idea of being evil and edgy, their jubilant response to War of the Thorns was proof of that.
Paradoxically, they hate the idea of paying for their crimes as obvious villains are wont to do in fantasy settings like this and start insisting that they aren’t evil, just morally grey when confronted with this outcome. Essentially, they want to have their cake and eat it too.
If they want to be cruel and edgy, they should be prepared to go all in with all that mindset entails or not at all. Tired of the strawman arguments they try to toss around when they’re confronted with the fact that they’ve happily committed war crimes. Sylvanas didn’t push or corrupt them into doing anything, they were only too happy to go along with it when they thought they could one-up the Alliance and have no consequences applied to their actions.
What’s worse I wonder: if they lazily didn’t try their hardest; or if they indeed DID ‘try their hardest’, within the limits of their ability, to show a morally gray conflict. 
Well, yes, that much is true. But ultimately, even with those choices, the Sith are the “bad guys” in Star Wars. Hell, last I checked, the “canonical” assumptions for the Sith storylines were those in which all Dark Side choices were picked.
In SWTOR, when you play the Sith, the Jedi enemies you face are presented as hypocritical, arrogant, or unlikable in some ways, so even light-side Sith players will feel good about opposing those Jedi.
But in BfA, the Alliance characters the Horde face are all unquestionably good, so Horde player that want to do good will not feel right to fight them. They need to bring back the likes of Daelin Proudmoore, Garithos, those dawrves destroying tauren homeland in vanilla, so both good and evil Horde players will feel good about fighting them.
I want a spicy Horde, not necessarily out right evil. There seems to be a very default “good person” mold in Wow and we can either be that or be evil. I understand it’s easier to write, but come on, we deserve more than that.
Even Thrall, whom the writers since the very beginning shoved into said “good person” mold could’ve been so much more interesting if he… well, wasn’t. Imagine if he had a huge conflict about trusting humans considering what he went thru with them? If he hated them and couldn’t get past that?
The story tries so hard to civilise the Horde, but I don’t think we need that. I think it can be not evil while at the same time not being red Alliance. Alliance is stillostly dominated by human societal values, the Horde does not need that.
I switched to Horde around MoP because I didn’t start playing this game to be a MHP obsessed withbeing a Lawful Stupid moralizing jerk that lusts for high elves and Lorderon on every toon with a blue background. Then BfA dropped.
To me, it feels like it’s too late for this. After everything that’s been written between Cata/MoP and now BFA, those characters are just going to come off as correct and justified, no matter how hard the story tries to yell otherwise.
That’s true, that’s why I don’t want to recognize the story after Wrath, if I come back to check out SL from Classic. I’ve made a post about making community edits to the story, but no luck.
Since new Horde players now only need to play thru the Zandalar story-line, does it actually show or mention the acts of the Horde that crosses the moral line, only way is to head-canon away the bad story-telling since Cata.
Because being evil only means being dungeon and raid fodder without any real agenda to push which has been the whole storyline of the Horde since MoP.
I prefer Blizzard actually put some effort and time to develop Horde races with tangible goals like expanding to x zone or getting back some old city or zone(Like Jintha’alor for the Raventusk) rather than another “Evil monsters are up to something, go to this instance to kill then”
It was not even evil, it was stupid evil and commiting genocide and war crime after war crime just for the sake of it
Doing something evil for the sake of it is boring story telling. Doing something questionable for the sake of survival, that makes you wonder if you would have done the same thing is good.
The Horde should do some questionable things for survival, sure. The problem comes when Blizzards cracks this up to 11 and removes the controls for shock value.
The problem is that neither did the Horde do these things for survival, nor were those things questionable.
They were blatantly evil, and even if they redeem Sylvanas in some stupid way, the Horde will still remain evil because they weren’t fighting for any of Sylvanas’ plans, they were fighting and commiting war crimes because “they might attack us one day” which is a very dumb reason to begin with.
But there even really is no reason for the Horde as an entity to do chaotic evil things for no reason. It makes no sense. Apart for perhaps Forsaken, who were kinda the black sheep anyway, none of the races are “” inherently evil"".
I disagree that it is a dumb reason. I do think that it’s dumb that said reason was so quickly bought by Saurfang and the Horde when she used it to convince them to go to war two days after they just defeated a world-ending God.
The “you know they hate you and will take the chance to end you one day” is great, but it should have been taken a lot more slowly, imo.
I’m not disagreeing, merely answering the topic.
Agreed. Torching the city just because Sylvanas threw a temper tantrum was idiotic. Now any move the Alliance moves against the Horde will have justification.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t Saurfang opposed to another war when Sylvanas very provocatively asked him for advice on “hypothetically” attacking Stormwind? But then he promptly gets handed the idiot ball and gets convinced another war is absolutely necessary RIGHT NOW WE GOTTA DO IT NOW.
Like… if we let the Horde a very clear reason to worry about being wiped out (not to say it’s not there at all, it was just not very visible at that time) , let them stew with this idea over their heads for a while, the whole story could have worked much better, imo.