+6 = 613 ?
+7 = 616 ?
+8 = 619 ?
+9 = 623 ?
+10 = 626 ?
The loot rewards are not balanced even a tiny bit…
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Well if you want to get into a pug, then a meta spec overgeared for the content you are trying to do.
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In PuGs you will need ilvl 9000 at a minimum for a +2
I’d say you are pretty spot on tho with those numbers lol
Obviously you don’t need that high of ilvl for those keys, but in PuGs that’s what people will want.
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correct. M+ is a complete mess all the way around. A +5 drops 603 gear, so the assumption would be ~600 ilvl, but I am 613 and have easily been deleted, especially if mobs autos all sync as a tank.
If i am not pugging, I can tell my healer I don’t have fel dev/meta and to stack heals on me, but no excuse for that even being a possibility unless standing in bad or something.
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I can only speak as a bear in pugs:
+7’s - Doable around 506 with no tier. Was very rough however and was prone to being one shot on pull before I got Ironfur stacks.
+8’s - Timed the first one I tried at 511 but had 4 piece.
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M+ now are a big skill check. Your dps should be CCing groups consistently and you should be kiting when possible, even in these lower keys, its kinda ridiculous. You aren’t really expected to face tank anymore.
Yeah but CC can actually make the group worse and cause a wipe, as it will sometimes sync mob autos when they come out of the stun. It also doesn’t help half the time since the mobs will immediately start casting the same thing again.
Just so many things wrong with M+ right now you could write a novel.
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Thanks. I believe they’re about accurate as well, which basically means I need 610-613 ilvl to earn 603 ilvl… what is that blizzard!? lol???
Exactly. This is pretty absurd. And then Gilded at lvl 9? So… i need to already be like 623 to earn gilded… but I kinda need Gilded to get 623… Bliz knows exactly what they ar doing…
Or should I say Microsoft.
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Whoa why are you bringing me in to this! 
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Well you aren’t wrong lol also missing 1 cast interrupt can send everyone to the shadow realm so 
idk I’ve just done a few 4s and 2s in my limited time recently mostly been spending my playtime progging the raid but M+ is by far the most difficult out of all of the content rn either we will need to massively overgear or wait for nerfs to be “comfortable” in them.
I plan to farm some rating this week and see if I can pug some higher keys or ask my guild if they wanna do some 6s
Its certainly not worth it for the gear. Its just for achievements etc.
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I’m doing 9’s at 610. Surv hunter.
What is the context here? Are you dying or worried about “will a pug invite me”?
Pugs will always take the best option, and the odds are just really low that any one particular player will be the best option, so run your own.
If you’re dying at 613 i think you really need to examine how it happened and learn from it.
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WoW is the only game where you need the gear from the content you want to do, to get invited to do the content you want to do.
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It is not a question of ilevel but a question of your capability.
If you can destroy +5’s easily, you are ready for +6.
If you can destroy +6 easily, you are ready for +7.
If you can destroy +7 easily, you are ready for +8.
If you can destroy +8 easily, you are ready for +9.
Dont worry if M+ Loots are bad, you are getting Crests. And you can do it many times. Delves Gear is carrying you for the first few weeks.
If you go straight to +10 without confidence on +5, +6, +7, +8 and +9, expect to get wrecked.
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Anything you want when you play with guildies.
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I think at a certain point its not about ilvl but the players ability to do mechanics properly. I’ve seen people with 610 ilvl doing 7s-10s.
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No doubt some of this is homework keys. I did some of these for SoB the other day as I wasn’t confident in the count or how to pull around the third and fourth pulls without getting pats and causing wipes.
I think the bigger part though is a +7 is on the heroic track. I’m doing NW and CoT for the rings and AK for the trinket and I think my weapon is from there.
But it’s a problem created by the players, not really blizzard in this case. The guy making the group is always going to take the highest geared person.
I don’t know why they felt a need to buff up the difficulty in these though, so I guess that has exacerbated the problem.
Yep the rewards do not match the difficulty and ILVL required.
that’s why you need to do some delves
As many have said, it’s more about skill at that point. I tanked a +2 last night as a 608 bear and I was doing more damage than 2 of our dps and we struggled. People didn’t help interrupt, they didn’t get into bloods and got wrecked on singularities, and much more. We did finish, after 50 deaths, but yeah, was ugly. You can’t cover for other people not doing mechanics, and that’s PuG life.
In BfA, as a tank, I could carry a LOT more of it on my own, often soloing half of some bosses as needed. The world is different now. Getting to 608 is easy in delves, so all PuGs need to start there.