What is the Duchy of the Lionheart’s? Which territory or region is it?
And if unknown, what makes the most sense?
I tend to think his territory must have encompassed the area surrounding Dalaran, probably all of Hillsbrad and possibly more, for him to be sympathetic enough to the mages/Jaina to join her.
That’s really intresting that you thought enough of the lore to look into this. Unfortunately I think Duke was just his name and not a aristocratic title.
Assuming Duke wasn’t just his name, I’d imagine that given his presence in Jaina’s expedition, he was from Northern Lordaeron, maybe around Andorhal. He didn’t seem like a self-serving coward in his brief appearance, so it’s doubtful he’d have abandoned his lands unless they’d already been hit hard by the Scourge and he was leading his evacuated people.
Come to think of it, what was Terenas’ reaction to the evacuation across the sea? Did he see nobility abandoning their duties as traitors? Was Jaina taking refugee populations, or just soldiers? I know he didn’t have long to ponder the question, but he did have time between Jaina and Arthas leaving and Arthas returning.
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Duke_Lionheart
TLDR: Duke might just be his first name, or a nickname.
I agree that he didn’t seem like a coward, but retreat isn’t only explained by cowardice. He may just have believed it was the best choice for the people he stewarded.
Do you recall what the names of those lands were before just “plaguelands”? Or were they ever given worthwhile names at all even?
That is a very interesting question, but I doubt we will ever get a solid answer and to be honest I’m not sure anything the official writers would say at this stage would be satisfying.
What do you think?
Personally, in my fanfiction after the Third War, hardline characters such as Standhaft Garithos do regard many of them as cowards, but with so much chaos, destruction, retreat, and exodus, most people viewed it as being inevitable rather than cowardly.
Wasn’t it something like, ‘Eastwald?’ Eastweald, maybe?
Jaina’s expedition consisted of forces from every Alliance nation, and even some not from the Alliance, such as the Gilnean Brigade. I imagine she had the permission of Terenas and the other leaders of the Alliance to make it.
There are so many Dukes in Warcraft that I’m certain he had a Duchy.
According to Arthas: Rise of the Lich King the Human Expedition sailed for Kalimdor after the fall of Quel’thalas and before the destruction of Dalaran.
I base this on how when Arthas and Antonidas have their banter Jaina is in Dalaran. Antonidas convinces her to guide the other survivors to Kalimdor when she falters and wants to stay to help him and confront Arthas. She agrees and teleports out of the city before Arthas and Kel’Thuzad lead the Scourge into the place, kill Antonidas, and claim the Book of Medivh.
That is some exceptionally weird timing, but Warcraft books have always been exceptionally weird when it comes to the lore, though definitive. I always assumed that Jaina adhered the Medivh’s warning right after Stratholme, when Arthas left Lordaeron for Northrend. Otherwise the timing of journey across the sea doesn’t make much sense in regards to things like human forces beating the orcs there and occupying the route up Stonetalon Peaks, but I guess Thrall was busy saving the Darkspear from being enslaved by murlocs or something on some sidequest and that ate up a lot of time.
Sadly the Plaguelands don’t have much in the way of pre-plaguelands naming, and game scale is always a contentious issue. As is, assuming he was actually duke-tier in Lordaeron, to flee the kingdom without having had his lands previously devastated and his people in need of relocation would indeed be about as cowardly as it gets for landed nobility. I mean, there’s the logistics of moving large populations across a previously unexplored sea to begin with (yes, yes, I know, whole orcish population in a few stolen boats, but still). There’s just too little in the lore to go on regarding his position. It would be neat admittedly though if he was the duke of the Andorhal region. Collecting the survivors of that mess would have fit in with Jaina’s mandate, especially if, as it turns out, the exodus took place after Arthas destroyed the kingdom. As it turns out though, Terenas never did get the opportunity to judge the people that fled, as they fled after his death. Seems I was wrong about that.
Would have been pretty complex though. But at the same time, Warcraft just isn’t that complex a setting, which depresses me sometimes when I expect more of it. I try to get over it though.
Well when it comes to Medivh’s warning it would take time to convince people to gather and leave their homes, especially after the Scourge pulled back when Arthas killed Mal’ganis. Per Chronicle Volume 3 the people saw this as Arthas defeating the Scourge, which would cause them to be dismissive following Jaina’s. Thus I think it was after Arthas returned and murdered his father that people realized that she had the right idea.
Gathering them took time and the Horde got split at the Maelstrom, with Thrall befriended the Darkspear tribe and Grom ending up in Kalimdor himself. Yeah it doesn’t really flow neatly but I guess that Jaina and the Human Expedition must had a really calm waves and fast ships.
I’ll see if I can find out.
I think it’s highly unlikely that Jaina’s was asking permission to flee, that Terenas agreed (having previously dismissed Medivh), that the expedition was sanctioned.
Jaina probably never asked and Terenas had more important things to deal with, though no doubt it was a blow to lose manpower and resources.
Yeah, I am not going to interpret Duke as being his name.
Was this a cutscene in Warcraft 3? I remember Antonidas and Arthas having their cutscene, but I don’t remember Jaina being in that mission. Or is that in the books only?
Oh, okay, definitely books stuff. I don’t read the books anymore and frankly so much of it is stupid that I probably won’t rely on it for my fanfiction.
Maybe I will just make him the Duke of Easwald or whatever. I like your take on it.
Even before Terenas died, entire cities and regions had been devastated. Anderhol, Stratholme, and others IIRC, which creates plenty of pragmatic motivation, not to mention that Medivh could easily have been visiting other high ranking individuals such as Duke Lionheart.
Jaina was added to the moment in the novel. Originally Antonidas came out of Dalaran to personally snark with Arthas and the novel changed Antonidas magically amplifying his voice from one of the Dalaran balconies. The novel then added Jaina to the moment and she stayed out of sight within the tower because she was unsure about facing Arthas.
I also agree that it’s unlikely Jaina was asking for permission to flee. I think it’s more likely, being an intelligent and cautious young woman from a royal family and whom was the apprentice of the head of the Council of Six, that she had the political acumen and general tact to phrase her departure and request for forces as an expedition to the west to look into matters that could not only have been regarding the warning from Medhiv, but also the loss of several Alliance ships taken by the Horde.
It’s also worthwhile to keep in mind that when Jaina departed the worst of the Scourge outbreak was presumably contained; Stratholme. We don’t have evidence of further outbreaks that were diverting Alliance forces, especially as when the undead campaign begins, Arthas has to go around and gathering cultists and start raiding graveyards.