That they are playable is not in dispute. That they are worth playing given everything that’s happened is.
Right here is a dispute of Night Elves being part of the Alliance, and story, and playable.
The argument is there by some people who seem to just read web blogs and never actually play the game.
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The difference between forsaken and Night Elves is that the forsaken still have their population and will have their leader return soon. They also have places to go.
The Night Elves however are at the brink of extinction, their goddess doesn’t care about them over using them as soul fuel, their zones are either destroyed or in Horde hands (and the Horde most certainly won’t give it up, nor will the Alliance try to push for it for a near extinct race).
The souls of the Night Elves (that were their only hope of a future) are also obliterated, and Elune forced Tyrande to forgive Sylvanas and the Horde, meaning the Night Elves also can’t reclaim any of their lost territory using the Night Warrior as it’s considered vengeance now, which then again means that they will never have anywhere to go to and the Horde will just keep doing what they have been doing.
The only place the Night Elves can and will have in the game going forward will be as a handful of NPCs scattered around stormwind, so they might as well be left out of the story and game entirely. As survivors of a near extinct race living in poverty on the streets, you also can’t have any children, so we’re currently in the last generation of living Night Elves as there’s no way for them to repopulate by having children either.
Finel will be the last Night Elf to grow up… if she isn’t killed before.
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Hyjal. They go to Hyjal.
It seems you are not able to comprehend Shadows Rising - either through Audio, Physical Pages, some WEB APP, or Braille… but if you were capable of comprehending a book, you would see how wrong you are.
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I’m not talking about just 4 of their prominent characters. Their civilians have nowhere to go, and don’t need anywhere to go unless their souls are magically restored and revived.
But yea, with them being obliterated in the maw, there goes that.
Neither am I. There are more than just 4 Night Elves there. But you are as ignorant of that as you are of most of the lore you rant about.
The Night Elves have a Place to go - Hyjal. And more than 4 Night Elves go there.
Anything else you want to be wrong about?
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And the both of you are talking past each other, and avoiding the issue.
Either today or tomorrow will be my last posting day here. I’m going to leave you with this advice:
- Get your accounting straight and use consistent methods
- Be careful with what you state as a fact and that you are not including predictions
- Recognize when someone is referring to a broader thematic issue in support of your point instead of using it as a launchpad to discuss a question that doesn’t matter
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If you are talking about those Hyjal guards that were there before Shadow’s Rising… sure.
Hyjal, a neutral, contested and destroyed zone is not a place night elf civilians - if they still existed - can go to.
I am, it’s you who makes things unnecessarily complicated when it’s really simple just because you want to feel smarter or superior to others or whatever.
I’m not using predictions, just obvious outcomes and consequences, and things that have already happened that others chose to ignore ( like the Night Elf souls being gone forever, Ashenvale having been claimed by the Horde etc…)
You brought up the forsaken as a counterpart to Night Elves which I don’t agree with. Those 2 aren’t even comparable when it comes to what they have lost and how (and if) they will be able to recover from it.
Even by your foul miscounting, ignoring “old guards” - there are more than 4.
Malfurion.
Shandris.
Tee - RAN FROM DARKSHORE - Duh
Maiev.
but also a young girl playing a lute. Not an “old guard” - because I guess your sort of Forum Troll does not count “old guards”.
That makes at least 5.
So even by your foul miscounting, there are more than 4. You are still wrong.
Um… I am fairly sure this NEFPA knows it is obfuscating.
Five doesn’t make it better, the point is that they can’t build a future at this point, and that holds true with 4, with 5, even with 10. It’s not possible with such few numbers, especially considering that those from Stormwind didn’t even go to Hyjal.
Furthermore, Hyjal is still a contested zone, filled with Horde that wants them dead and a zone destroyed from the cataclysm.
So you whine that it is 4… And then when shown that you are totally incorrect, and the number is greater, it is never good enough.
1 more night elf doesn’t change anything about my initial point, and you ignored the fact that they couldn’t go to Hyjal even if they had the numbers.
It also doesn’t change anything about the fact that Finel (assuming that she survives) will be the last night elf to be born and to grow up (well unless there’s another even younger baby that was resuced).
What could have prevented this if the night elf souls were rescued and revived instead of obliterated, and if Elune actually cared about the Night Elves as people.
The code of conduct among other things prohibits this kind of behavior:
Harassing or Defamatory
This category includes both clear and masked language and/or links to websites containing such language or images which:
- Insultingly refer to other characters, players, Blizzard employees, or groups of people
- Result in ongoing harassment to other characters, players, Blizzard employees, or groups of people
The sustained use of this term, which does not mean what you say it means, because you and others apply it to Night Elf fans generally, is both an insulting reference to a specific group of people, and a carrying-on of ongoing harassment. I am asking that you desist.
This post makes reference to YOUR method of counting, which is complex because you don’t use the same method each time. Instead you switch them, improperly, when it suits you.
Regarding point #2 - your attempt to sidestep me by re-naming your acts of predicting and headcanoning isn’t slick.
Regarding this:
The conversation on who had it worse is a) not directly comparable, and b) a completely pointless distraction. It’s utterly stupid, and you torpedo your own points by wasting time on this conversation on who is the bigger victim.
What matters is the principle at stake - the matter of an entire playable race being decimated to the point where they have no future - which is a situation that the Forsaken are in too. Whether you agree on what the magnitude is? That’s utterly pointless.
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Yes- it does.
Neither am I. More than 4 are there.
You used a bogus number to bolster a bogus point.
No, because the initial point is that they’re too few in numbers to reproduce, build a future etc.
I’m not changing anything. My methods are always the same about how many night elves died and how many of those we saved (max 10%, but realistically way lower).
I’m not renaming anything. On top of that, telling me that I can’t know something that has already happened (e.g. Horde having Ashenvale, Night Elf souls being gone) makes those wrong that tell me that, not me.
The forsaken do have a future as opposed to Night Elves though. The only thing the Forsaken don’t have anymore is a capital city. That’s the only thing, they didn’t lose anything else from BfA, and everyone was also forced to forgive their genocidal mass murderer of a leader so that she can return to them together with her husband that already announced his return.
Night Elves however still have their leader… but that’s where it ends. They don’t have anything apart from that as I mentioned many times already. No population, no hope of their souls coming back to life, no caring goddess anymore, nowhere to go, no justice, no potential reclamation of their zones etc…
We’ve been through that.
Yes you have, and that post demonstrates your deception quite clearly. Here it is again for those interested:
Your second claim is just wrong - and your third one is once again going down a completely divisive and pointless garden path in a manner that distracts from and torpedoes your own claim.
I disagree. There is no where in that code that prohibits pointing out that a posting avatar is a playable race.
A NEFPA is simply that - a Night Elf Forum Posting Alt.
But to paraphrase a “News” Network :
You Report - the Mods Decide.
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Agreed. As long as Blizzard see’s the Alliance as only “humanity and their allies” the faction will never have any growth. They literally exist to prop up already overused characters like Anduin and Jaina, and any character or sub-faction who does stick their head out of line out gets treated like a bent nail and made an example of why everything would be perfect if they just shushed and listened to their human masters.
The same could be said for the Horde. As long as the Horde is the primary faction of driving the story, the Alliance will not have any agency of their own because they sit in the corner and merely “exist” until the Horde does something.
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Maybe this was not the case back in Warcraft 3/WoW vanilla but so what. The Alliance got closer over time! That is the point, the Alliance is suppose to be bound by more than just mutual defense/its common enemy of the Horde.
The various leaders/main characters of the faction treat each other like family. Whether it be Anduin calling Jaina “auntie” to Shandis calling her Battle sister. To Velen, Magni and Genn being father figures to Anduin to Varian. To the gnomes effectively being cousins of the dwarves.
As for the question at hand, I think that is the Alliance is suppose to advance it needs to show the races working more closely together. Not apart. Have the various Alliance race help the night elves create their new capital. Have Dark Irons and Gnomes help the Bronzebeard repair Stonewrought dam. Have various Alliance races push back the tide from Menthil Harbor. Heck, repair Theramore so the Alliance can once again have easy access/ability to support the night elves.
If Blizzard is keen on renewal then its time the Alliance focus on rebuilding what it lost.
The foundation of the Alliance included literally the King of Lordaeron becoming a foster father to the Prince of Stormwind.
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