What is an appropriate PVP damage rotation?

Classes Rogue
1

I came back about six weeks ago after about a 5 year long vacation from the game. When i joined, the talent system seemed… off.

To the best of my abilities and judgment, I stuck with Assassination, but I think I screwed up. What I have is:

For standard talents:
Mater poisoner
Master Assassin
Vigor
Leeching Poison
Internal Bleeding
Toxic Blade
and Crimson Tempest

The PVP talents are:
Gladiator’s Medallion
Flying Daggers
Manuverability
Creeping venom

My rotation is:
Mutilate - I try to cast this as often as possible after stacking bleeds.

Garrote - I make sure this is the second thing I cast after poisons are applied

Toxic Blade - another button to click for damage

Rupture - My energy recovery rate and cooldowns seem to effect this sorta. I apply this if I don’t have to use kidney shot first.

Kidney Shot - self explanitory, considering this is a rogue staple.

Fan of Knives - This has almost no use for me. Any groups in PVP get maybe two FoK on them before taking turns with my backside.

Crimson Tempest - This is a last ditch attack that I almost never use. Before I die, if I have combo points, I use it on groups on the offchance there’s a rogue in them.

I use to be decent, but something’s very off. If anyone can offer a returning rogue some tips, I’d greatly appreciate it.

2

It’s looks like you’re trying to do an AoE build. Don’t do that. Our AoE is weak. However, there’s nothing wrong with spamming a few FoK’s to spread around some Wound Poison.

3

Any tips for a more direct damage build?

4

15: Master Poisoner is my choice on this. Elaborate Planning is good alternative.

30: Subterfuge with at least 2 Shrouded Suffocation traits is pretty much standard.

45: Anyone of these will work. Vigor keeps the energy flowing, Deeper Stratagem makes stronger finishers. Mark for Death allows for burst set up

60: I think most rogues go with Elusiveness. I also like Leeching Poison, though I wish it was a bit stronger.

75: Prey on the Weak seems to be the strongest choice. The other two have their uses.

90: Toxic Blade is the the only viable choice here.

100: Poison Bomb is the default. It’s just that good.

5

Talents I go are:

Blindside or Elaborate Planning (EP is the best once you have enough haste and can spam finishers enough to have excellent uptime) Blindside is “fun” but really not that good.

Subterfuge (always pick this)

Vigor (unless you have insane haste then go DS)

Leeching (unless you are pro enough to use Elusiveness well)

Internal Bleeding (when solo, otherwise use Prey on the Weak)

Exsanguinate (I loves it)

Crimson Tempest (more reliable than Poison Bomb)

PvP Talents: Gladiator’s Medallion, Creeping Venom, Smokebomb, and the Toxic Shock one (sometimes I’ll use neurotoxin in Bg’s to screw over the insta spamming healers).

For your rotation you need to try something different:

Start with Garrote (try to multi open on 2-3 people if possible in BG’s)
Rupture at full CP
Mut to 4 or 5 CP and either KS, Envenom, or Crimson depending on situation

everything from here just depends…

With proper gear you should be rocking about 35-40% haste unbuffed. You are a Dotting powerhouse. Just keep layering those suckers on and if they are all up it’s all about getting as many envenom’s off as possible while you control the situations with your CC’s and defensive cooldowns.

6

Yeah some of these talents are kinda trash in pvp. I run
15- Master poisoner (arena) or Elaborate planning (bgs, but it can be good in some arena matchups when that extra 10% dmg is needed to kill in a spite go or something stupid)

30- Subterfuge all the way.

45 - Marked for death, it’s really good for the opener. Garrote rup to the side during a sap (since your not autoing it wont break the sap) then mfd kidney with all dots ready to go.

60- Elusiveness, but if your not pressing feint, and can’t prefeint stuns just go any of the other 2.

75- Internal bleeding, no explanation here

90- toxic blade, no explanation here

100 - This row is really bad tbh, it wont really matter what you chose tbh. Crimson temp is the absolute worse though! Take poison bomb if you wanna focus on single target (although it’s super underwhelming) and hidden blades if you wanna play a aoe bg build. Hidden blades is super good when paired with flying daggers.

Taking smoke bomb is a must! The other 2 talents are always changeable. I like to take DFA, and mindnumbing in arena. But in bgs ill drop mind-numbing for honor among thieves, or system shock.

My opener is usually sap> Garrote/rup from the side (if the player you’re doing this against is good they can screw you over. So against good players I will only use one global to bleed) > MFD kidney > Reaping flame and a trinket (drest and bike are off the gcd) > toxic blade > some muts > envenom.

If they don’t die in the stun or trinket, start kiting around with throw knife if they are melee. Or shut them down if they are a caster. Always keep bleeds up, and wait for the next kidney. If they have no trinket Kidney > vendetta > trinket flame > toxic blade > muts > envenom > mfd envenom> dead

Everything is SUPER situational and won’t 100% get a kill. So use your defensive wisely, and never be scared to go for a re-stealth!

2 Likes
7

Marked for death is way better the vigor for pvp in arenas. (Once you get some haste that is.)
Mark of death kidney bomb alone is such a strong opener if you play double dps in 2s. Allows for some really nice burst when needed to or instead stub focus targets ect. Highly recommended to go mark of death.

1 Like
8

I’ve played rmpriest to 2783 this season and 2900 in past seasons.
You go:
master poisoner
Subterfuge
Marked for death
Elusiveness
Internal bleeding
Toxic blade
Poison bomb

Pvp talents:
System shock
Smoke bomb
Maneuverability

The only one I ever switch out is maneuverability if the other team has no slows at all. Then I mind numbing poison.

I’ll add more to this later when I have more time :slight_smile:

5 Likes
9

Hi rogue trying to learn how to PvP. Especially looking for rotation advice.

Do you have more time yet :grin:

11

I am not a glad rogue player by any means, (highest I have gotten with rogue is only 2k plus) But I may be able to give some advice. (though I am sure a lot of this is gunna change in Shadowlands).
I assume you are playing sin currently on live?
Openers depend on makeup as well. Forexample getting a cheap shot off on the healer then opening on a dps while your mage casts polly on the healer.
Mark of death kidney is my fav opener as it can give some good burst right off the bat. Garrote mutilate rupture. Depending on if I need to peel or cc someone else the rotation changes. There will never be a "fixed 100% do this everytime) rotation because you need to be adaptable in pvp. That being said, keeping your bleeds up is hella important as sin since it gives you your energy.

1 Like
12

I really need to learn how to use rogue cc better. And I think holding some damage off as well.

From stealth I usually start with a sap on non-target, then garrote > mutilate > rupture > mfd > Kidney > Vendetta > Drest trinket > reaping flames > Mutilate > Mutilate > Toxic Blade > Envenom and stay repeating the last 3.

It works well about half the time. The other half they get defensive’s up or heals and I’m scrambling since all my offensive CDs are gone.

I think I’ve always associated rogue with the stun > burst aspect, and need to learn to play a more patient style and definitely how to cc better.

I haven’t used cheap shot as an opener in awhile.

13

The problem with opening with garrote instead of a stun means the enemy has a chance to use a defensive ect. (example, warriors, they can instantly bladestorm and will not be able to be stunned, sheeped ect during.)
I would recommend trying mark of death kidney openers in some situations. The burst it gives is huge. You would proc internal bleeding, which will also help with energy. You don’t always want to open with mark of death kidney, especially if you are cheap shotting off targets ect, but it does give some great burst.

I usually open with cheap if I had already cheaped the off target. (though with it only giveing 1 CP in sl, that may change) Sometimes ill sap the kill target since sheep and sap share dr. (which is why I cheap off target so mage can get easy sheep).
Also, don’t blow your vendetta just to blow it. If you are trying to trade cool downs, you can for sure do that without using it, having vendetta up for kill windows will win you games. But it takes practice. I was so used to just training someone down as a DK player. But pvp is very reactive anyhow. It just takes practice. I would recommend watching Xaryu coaching Ohhchetos. He gives some good advice. Or watch some of pikas videos.

1 Like
14

Oh man that honestly didn’t occur to me. That would explain why half the time people go down in my opener and half the time it doesn’t take them past half of their HP. So for the kidney opener, you would generally
garrote >mutilate >rupture > mutilate 2x > toxic blades > envenoms after? Or even get through rupture then vendetta > trinket > reaping if you got them down enough to finish them?

Also, sort of related - my damage is always middle of the pack in battlegrounds. Do you try to spread your bleeds as much as possible to increase damage? I usually stick to one target at a time but I’ve watched a few players just constantly switch targets to stack bleeds. Or with my gear at this point in the xpac, am I just not going to be pulling the kind of DPS that tops the meters?

Thanks for all your advice so far! It’s really good stuff to think about.

15

It depends on hp thresholds as well.
I usually mark of death kidney the main target, garrote mutilate (reason for mutilate is to hopefully get all poisons on them if they haven’t applied via auto attacks) then rupture. If they are above 80 percent hp, I will use reaping flames. if not I try to save it. Though sometimes I add reaping in the opener dpending on the situation. Usually it is mutilate toxic blade next. Chances are at least one will crit to get you to 4-5 combo points. into evenom spams. I try to save dres when targets are low to get easy snipe windows, or when the healer is ccd and going for kills.
If they trinket your kidney perfect, cause that means you get full stun on next go.
Sometimes I add smokebomb in to force the healer to run in ect. But that is all based on positioning ect.
I play double deeps in 2s. So you gotta remember you are not the only source of damage. Getting saps off of blinds ect will win games. or Kindney smoke bombs when the healer is far ect.
Looking at your gear, you would want to stack as many twist of knives you can with system shock. Creeping venom is okay for bgs, but you will rarely see it played at all at high arenas. The extra burst from twitst of knife stacking with system shock pvp talent is way better.

BG wise, I don’t go for most damage. I go for kills and cc. No point to top damage if you don’t win. But I suppose if you were trying to top damage then multi dotting for sure would be a good way to go.

1 Like
16

For openers you don’t need to get a full CP rupture a sit can be applied after the opener. It’s perfectly ok to put a 2 or rupture up before trying to get some damage in on an opener.

2 Likes
17

Ok I’ll look to see if I can’t reforge; more good advice! Double deeps = double DPS?

Thats good advice. I think I’ve been wasting too much time opening and this will probably help me get more damage off more quickly.

18

Use your sap as a cs. Don’t use cd to dr your kidney.

19

Uh what?l?

20

Garr doesn’t do initial damage to break Sap just cancel autos.

21

Or you can just mfd kidney