Right now, all three specs of Rogues eat up all the “borrowed power” haste bonuses, like Corruptions and Azerite traits. Once all that haste is gone in Shadowlands, it’s gonna break a lot of things. It’d be pretty nice to get at least some of it baselined with a small SnD rework, and the spell honestly wouldn’t even be changing much.
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Yeah it’s almost like blizzard has literally zero foresight and planning going into their band-aid fix as needed class design.
That being said, I’d rather have attack speed and see blizzard revisit previous iterations of rogue to fix any haste related issues. With poisons coming back attack speed is going to be really nice.
like not having relentless strikes despite it being baseline for 80% of the games existence. (Mandatory in every spec with talent trees. Baseline after their removal until legion.)
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But Haste gives attack speed…
not on par with actual attack speed unless i’m mistaken? in terms of how fast haste makes your white hits vs attack speed.
my point was more that the class needs to be fixed fundamentally so we don’t need this huge haste reliance. having high haste should be something we enjoy at the end of expansions when gear is through the roof. not a standard for the class.
High crit on the other hand. I miss having high baseline crit.
Speaking of slice and dice though. Is there any word if it’ll be bringing back energetic recovery for subtlety?
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You should try playing with like rank 10 Expedient. When you have 50% Haste without buffs, your autos will be fast.
Also, even if 50% Haste isn’t as “fast" as 50% attack speed, the interaction Haste has with stuff like speeding up your DoT tick makes it strictly superior.
Oh, I’ve played wit high haste. Don’t get me wrong, I love high haste. It’s like having bloodlust 24/7. Who doesn’t love the lust part of the fight?
I’m just saying I love attack speed slice and dice more. You can have both if slice and dice is attack speed. You can’t have both otherwise.
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That’s kinda the problem. For it to be useful to Outlaw (and to a lesser extent, Sub), SnD would have to be like 50% haste. Which would be kinda broken for Assassin dots once they started gaining haste.
That said, Assassins really could use some more interaction with SnD. I’ve been thinking that maybe they should add poison applications to Venomous Wounds so SnD buffs energy regen as it does with the other specs.
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Maybe for assassination, it should give haste.
Doesn’t attack speed benefit poison procs tho? You can already have high haste without a maintenance buff. Assassination needs Relentless Strikes.
I’m not well versed on the way pve works, I’m just speaking my mind here.
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Correct. Poison procs are ~30% in Shadowlands, so attack speed will scale such linearly.
From the PvE side of things, giving raw haste is a bad idea in the long run, as giving a static value will force you to gear away from haste at a certain point which is entirely the reason why Blizzard will stick with attack speed. You WILL hit a haste soft cap super early if Slice and Dice gives haste, and then SimCraft will scream at you to avoid gear with haste. It’s much easier to balance the spec around attack speed.
And giving the spec Relentless Strikes makes too much sense (god forbid you make it smoother from a baseline gameplay PoV), so that likely isn’t happening either. :c
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Slice being raw attack speed is better because a massive haste buff like that would cause the haste stat to suffer massive DR and then the stat would become useless.
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I mean no offense, but I feel like you should try to dive into the endgame some more. Haste kinda works like a flat damage buff to your DoTs now, and Sin in particular would lose the entire Exsang playstyle without the option to build massive amounts of it. It’s not just about “fun”.
I just came back after a long break. Apparently I wont be able to do endgame, or even pvp, until I finish grinding my time-gated cloak.
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Yeah it sucks big time, I suggest you have a look at how bad arena is before you get too deep. Right now with the state of play, corruptions PVE tank trinkets and destro warlocks are so broken that it makes classic wow pvp look like the epitome of balance and refinement. Top that off with the classes truly lacking actual depth, such as relentless strikes no longer existing, everything feels terrible and off.
That’s a good thing dude. When one stat becomes worthless, that just means we can eliminate it from our build and get more of the other three stats. Being able to get Haste without building Haste means we have more stats overall.
Except that they would never allow us to have a stat for free like that, they would take it out of our pay check some place down the line.
Eh, Legion’s Legendary shoulder begs to differ, but BfA Sub’s entire spec also exists. I think ultimately, that will just boil down to how much fun the devs are willing to let players to have. It’s actually a running joke between me and my Rogue guild leader that the devs played rogues in Legion but rerolled Mage/Hunters/DH in BfA, lol.
Would not be a surprise, the problem is they busted the class to suit them selves, and then when they were done playing they left us in that state of ruin without any effective repairs to the class.
Perfect example of busted stuff, relentless strikes getting removed because blizzard dislikes rogue control and burst, trying to throttle our potential here. Meanwhile adding in all sorts of non rogue stuff thats now considered rogue stuff but it really does not play all that great.
Playing classic, is in some ways very clunky compared to TBC, Wrath, Cata or Mists, but its 10X better than retail, not even kidding at least I feel like I am playing a real character rather than a busted slot machine.
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Slice and Dice giving % attack speed rather than haste means it’s effectively a separate multiplier on our attacks per second which is naturally pretty strong.
Also if they just gave Assassination something similar to Focused Attacks back it would feel more impactful having Slice and Dice back instead of it just being “get moar poisons brah”, which while handy isn’t exactly exciting
Yep. Well said.
They suffer from the same disorder as many modern businesses. A lack of progressive iterations. Instead, they start off in a direction, but quickly abandon it for another, and again another. Until there’s a mess of started but unfinished projects laying around. And finally, someone tries to hit a reset button so they can repeat the same mistakes. (What ever will happen in 10.0, I wonder?)
There’s a MASSIVE slew of unfinished bits in WoD. In Legion, they actually seemed to care a little more about the game (and I think they’re tinkering around now because they have no idea how to recreate that success), but there were still tons of breadcrumbs of unfinished business. And it didn’t just start happening either. Look at vanilla Hyjal or Stormwind and you can find a nice lack of polish present in the original game.
But polish is really what it boils down to. In Legion, they had to pay attention to EVERY spec and EVERY small detail. They “couldn’t” breeze over an artifact weapon (they could but it would’ve been much harder to get away with). They actually had to sit down and play each way to know what they had created and whether it was within a respectable standard of quality.
Lately, they’re trying to skimp out of that specializing trend, that uniqueness appeal by applying generalized designs and systems. The removal of class sets, non-specific azerite essences and corruption gear, to covenant abilities and soulbinds, creates an atmosphere that gives no reason to carve out a niche with the choices a player makes. Starting with which class to play. If that’s the design philosophy, classes themselves are superfluous and ought to also be removed… But that would be the end of the game itself.
I’m going to step off my soapbox now and say, the company needs to decide whether it’s going to continue in a generalizing trend or return to specialization - to times when the game really shined and the players recognized the quality put in.
Also, SnD should give flat haste. QED