Nah the whole allure of M+ is speed, and speed is a sweatier mechanic to counter than lack of deaths.
See I think that’s the biggest issue. Speedrunning has no place in an RPG. It’s detrimental and encourages the wrong sort of attitude and behavior in group content IMHO.
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ive had groups " time " a key with 30+ deaths.
I am aware of this, but if you fail the timer the key will not increase so you cannot push it higher without beating the timer, but yeah you will still get a chance at loot.
I am just saying a timer is POINTLESS its artificial difficulty. Let the scaling be the deciding factor in difficulty. The timer imo adds the stress that breads toxicity for many.
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I personally think M+ would be better off with a deaths system too, but you would definitely need a time limit of some kind (even a generous one) to prevent “wait for lust” gameplay.
You could keep the tighter timers that it has now as a higher-level affix for the groups that enjoy that playstyle, but relaxing timers for the rest of the playerbase would reduce the mandatory nature of skips as well as lower the barrier to entry for tanks and healers just starting out.
This can be accounted for with wait for it… enrage timers.
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I think the way around “wait for lust” would be to limit it to once per run (or twice, something like that). I just feel there should be something beyond encouraging speedrunning.
You need some form of sweaty, show off, look at me, content for the top 5% in a MMORPG or theres little motive for the casuals to improve.
Raids and M+ are two very different approaches to that. Some people want to be M+ badasses who can drop a video of how quick their group can clear. Its a fine endgame meta for those who enjoy, and you can make it super competative with how fast you can clear ect.
Its a fine thing to have in game even if im not into it. Sure endgame MMORPG on the highest level is going to have those negative get gud attitudes…better to isolate that on the top wit M+ and Mythic Raids.
I disagree with this, but I maintain there are other ways to do it than push an entire culture reminiscent of speed clearing Super Mario Bros into a MMORPG. Hell, they could have “normal” M+ with deaths and then have an added timer a la the old Challenge Mode with the leaderboards that doesn’t reward power but cosmetic/bragging stuff for those who want it, but the timer isn’t part of the normal routine.
The easy way to do this is to have the timer be an affix at the 16+ level. There are no power rewards (even from the Vault) for playing at that level, it’s purely for bragging rights/leaderboards.
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Timer is fine in M+. Go ruin someone else’s content. Thanks
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honestly i really dont care how they do M+…i dont even think im interested in accessing that top end sweaty content down the road on this expac…as long as the neckbeards with full time wow endgame jobs are happy and quiet in their own little show off content all is well. Really how it should be. You need that upper elite level of gamer to give something for casuals to aspire to.
The timer already ruins content for many people and is the antithesis of a MMORPG. Thanks.
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Uh. No. If you want terrible monotonous content you already have raiding. Go do that instead of trying to alienate a large portion of the playerbase that already feels alienated enough going into this expansion.
Speedrunning has no place in a MMORPG. The idea is sound but the execution is awful, and encourages everything wrong with an already-toxic playerbase.
Raidiing is no better and has its own set of issues.
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Given that the best rewards in the game come from raiding and not M+, clearly Blizzard does not agree with you that it is “terrible content.”
But also, even M+ aficionados should be happy to have a lower barrier to entry. I see complaints about lack of tanks and healers trying it out all the time.
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Op,that would be something get to the 6th death and boom instant death at mythic that I would like a video of 
It wouldn’t be instant death, just at 0 death counter your key doesn’t upgrade. Basically the same as the timer running out. No penalty other than key not upgrading.
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Mechanic already exists. Deaths just count up, not down, and come with a penalty.
The issue is psychological and I don’t see a great reason to do this change. Also, you think stuff is toxic now? What til you read party chat when someone gets a couple deaths in a row.
I’d take that over the rush rush gogogo mindset, to be honest.
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