In the icy wastelands of Northrend, Illidan Stormrage and the former prince Arthas Menethil do battle at the base of Icecrown Glacier. The Frozen Throne lays before either of them. Each of them land blow after blow neither of them giving any ground. Ner’zhul gives Arthas the power he can spare and Illidan enters his demon form. Illidan rushes the death knight giving him no opportunity to strike. Blow after blow, Illidan gains the upper hand and strikes Arthas down. He ascends the Frozen Throne and destroys Ner’zhul, bringing an end to the Lich King.
What happens next? Considering the recent events of Shadowlands, it could be possible that as Ner’zhul is destroyed and the armor along with him, the sky shatters bringing a gateway to The Maw. The Scourge would be without a master and run rampid around the world.
What do you think would happen?
As long as the helm of domination isn’t destroyed that we wouldn’t see the veil being torn asunder. I also don’t think Illidan would be able to pass up another source of power, given his history of embracing such, and thus I could see him betraying Kiljaden and claiming the helm for himself to use its power to control the Scourge - turning them against the Legion.
The question is if he would put on the Lich Kings armor, becoming undead and an unwitting puppet of Zovaal, or if he would just drain the power from the helm as he had drained the Fel magic from Guldan’s skull?
In the case of the former you’d likely have a huge change of events in Burning Crusade but Wrath might go about the same way as it did before. In the case of the latter, I’m not sure we’d make it as far as Wrath, as an Illidan capable of commanding the Scourge but unbound by the will of Zovaal would likely conquer Azeroth and then set about warring with the Burning Legion across the cosmos.
Things could be very different, indeed.
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Ultimately if Illidan won it would’ve strengthened the Legion, which we know he didn’t actually want.
I suspect Illidan would’ve taken the Helm of Domination himself, and turned on Kiljaeden from a position of power.
Since Illidan was being groomed by the Old Gods we probably would have had to fight Illidan at some point instead of Garrosh.
We’d possibly end up in the same place we are now but we’d be on the side of the Legion and would be helping the Legion defeat the Jailer.
Sargeras did nothing wrong. He was trying to save the universe from the Jailer. I’m sure Illidan of all people would understand that if presented with this information and it checks out. Kil’jaeden would still need to be killed though, but it would add more conflict between Illidan and Gul’dan if it made Illidan come to terms with Gul’dan as a mirror of himself.
Interesting hypothetical.
Depends whether or not Illidan puts on the Helm of Domination, whether or not he destroys it and which version of the lore we’re following. To use the latest canon.
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If Illidan killed Ner’zhul and didn’t wear or destroy the Helm; I think he would’ve gone to Kil’jaeden to collect on their bargain. Then we have to consider whether Kil’jaeden upheld his end of the bargain and didn’t try to kill Illidan (deals with demons are synonymous with double-crossing for good reason). Apart from Illidan, no Lich King means the undead rampage across the world and the Nathrezim would find someone else to wear the Helm, and what happens depends on whether they succeed and who wears it.
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If Illidan killed Ner’zhul and destroyed the Helm; Then a hole is torn in the sky between the mortal realm and the Shadowlands. The Scourge rampage and Illidan might studies the problem, possibly learning of the Jailer; Illidan would almost certainly turn against him. However, in that case, there’s also no Knights of the Ebon Blade and no Wrathgate betrayal… so Bolvar still leads the Alliance until Varian’s return and acts as a voice of reason. Also, since Garrosh doesn’t get famous fighting the Scourge, he never becomes Warchief. Thus we get Horde and Alliance peace, especially in the face of the larger threat of the Shadowlands, the Burning Legion and the Old Gods. That would also throw off the Jailer’s plan as the Scourge haven’t gathered strength for him and Sylvanas doesn’t make her bargain with him.
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If Illidan killed Ner’zhul and wore the Helm; This seems most likely given Illidan’s addiction to magical power. He’d probably go to Kil’jaeden and expect to collect on their deal, and the Jailer would also be trying to put his influence on Illidan, both Illidan and the Jailer seeking to use the Scourge against the Legion. While Illidan’s demon soul could make him harder to manipulate with domination magic, the Jailer could use Illidan’s desire to end the Legion to manipulate him.
My answer is a much more interesting story than the one currently being deployed for Shadowlands.
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Moreover since the Arbiter would still be active at that time, the Jailer wouldn’t be receiving the flow of souls and anima necessary to break free and build his own Mawsworn army that could contend with the Legion.
If it even could with the Legion not thoroughly demolished by us. At the time of TFT, with the Legion still active and led by Sargeras, even if Zovaal got his Mawsworn army by some other means it’s uncertain whether he could actually beat them, since the demons have an advantage of fel being able to consume basically anything - including souls, which comprise the Mawsworn - as fuel while any army from the Shadowlands fundamentally runs on anima, a resource that doesn’t really occur naturally outside their own plane of existence.
So every fallen Mawsworn soldier would be like raw material for the Legion’s armies, while every fallen demon would keep going back to the Twisting Nether to regenerate and fight again. Plus with the Burning Crusade still going on, in the macro sense a prolonged conflict between Death and the Legion would be overall skewing in the demons’ favor, as every world claimed by the Legion would basically be removed as a source of mortal souls by way of life there being eradicated or turned into more demons, while by its nature any host originating from the Shadowlands would need Life to continue proliferating unabated in the Great Dark in order for souls and anima to keep crossing over. Between those things and the BfA graveyard whisper about “the burning ones keeping balance,” I get the impression that the timing of Zovaal’s emergence as an active cosmic threat has hinged significantly upon us having already wrecked the hierarchy and organized rebirth mechanism of the Burning Legion, in effect crippling the one force active in the Great Dark that was vast and renewable enough to match if not straight-up overpower the Jailer’s Mawsworn in a protracted war.
So as things stand it seems like if the Helm had been destroyed by Illidan in TFT, Zovaal would have been in a poor position to properly capitalize on the resulting Scourge rampage and tear in the Veil, since without the glut of souls and anima in the Maw caused by the Arbiter shutting down he’d still be in chains with no infinite army of his own.
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There was a potential future Velen saw where someone else (not Arthas) took up the helm of domination and wiped the whole world of life before the Legion arrived.
The power behind the Lich King has tried multiple times to make Tirion the Lich King. I strongly believe he was meant to be the Lich King Velen prophesied but the Light made a deal the the Jailer for Tirion’s soul, offering up Bolvar and then Anduin instead.
So if you are right, even if Illidan never took up the helm. We would likely have a worse LK to deal with that Illidan. It seems like from the OG grooming Illidan would have taken Sylvanas’s role in breaking the Helm. Because Sylvanas is the current Old God pawn.
Also the comment above mine deserves way more likes. Sadly I can only like once.
I agree that we’d have a worse Lich King on our hands if Illidan killed Arthas, and that Illidan would be a more dangerous Lich King than Arthas was regardless of Illidan’s allegiance. I also like the comment you’re referring. As for your your answer, it raises other questions.
What Lich King did Velen prophesy? And what makes you think the Light offered up Bolvar and Anduin? Why do you think the Light would trade Tirion for Bolvar and Anduin?
Bolvar was captured by Arthas after the Wrathgate betrayal (plus he was effected with a large dose of Forsaken Blight plague, burned by red dragonfire and tortured by Arthas) and chose to take up the mantle to keep the Scourge contained and due to effects of the aforementioned three events. Anduin was subject to a surprise kidnapping by Mawsworn and sacrificed himself to the Jailer so our PCs could escape. That’s not the Light offering them up, but the characters voluntarily sacrificing themselves.
how would illidan actually fit it on his head
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Is it, though?
I wonder if part of the reason that happened was because of Zovaal’s increased strength due to all those souls pouring into the Maw. The timeline is a little sketchy for me, but the Arbiter presumably stopped working sometime after Uther died and maybe also after he dropped Arthas into it (the interesting new question in my mind is did Devos urge Uther to send Arthas to the Maw on her own initiative, or because Zovaal told her to?), so maybe he wouldn’t have been strong enough.
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You necro’d a 2 year old thread for this?
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They spent a lot of time looking for the information on their own.
They just now, only 17 minutes ago, gave up and came to ask for it.
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I am trying as we speak to find the Chronicle page number for a source. I am not sure if it’s in Chronicle vol. 1 or vol. 3. I posted it on Twitter, but I did not do a good job recording it. I did not note the page number. But I will find it.
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Chronicle volume 3 page 86 Legacy of the Highborne
"The naga did not come because of the history they shared with the former night elf. Nor did they respect him as a demon. They came because the Old Gods willed it.
The Old Gods had taken notice of Illidan. His hunger for power and his chaotic past intrigued them. His quest to destroy the Lich King could spark a new war on Azeroth, one that would likely envelop the undead, the world’s nations, and the Legion. With that kind of turmoil consuming Azeroth, Cho’gall and his cultists could awaken the Old Gods relatively unopposed.
Illidan had the potential to be very useful, and the Old Gods had sent the naga to make sure his campaign against the Lich King succeeded. […] the Old Gods were confident that they could use Illidan Stormrage to bring a new age of conflict to this world."
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This should be a Caverns of Time dungeon
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The scourge is indeed powerfull!
Making hunters with necromantic powers these days!
No more swords or books now is the time for bows to raise the dead!
Now that the Infinites are welcomed into the fold they propose and spearhead an intiative to “borrow” things from alternate timelines to aid our one, returning them when we’re finished. As a result we get dungeons where we do What If? scenarios like aiding Illidan in killing Arthas.
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