What I heard through the grapevine

I never thought I would sit down and plan out the writing of this post. Especially since you need an active subscription to post here. I left the game very (very) early at the start of Dragonflight, and missed that whole expansion. I had also done the same at the start of Battle of Azeroth; I still cannot fly in those zones.

But I’m still in contact with my last WoW guild, with whom I played Shadowlands. I heard some things on the grapevine that have moved me to invest in a one-month subscription so I can post this. Hopefully it will be worthwhile in some way.

I cannot explain why, but I was simply never capable of outputting the same level of gameplay-- any role, any class, any character-- in group content, as most skilled players. In Legion, and again in Shadowlands, I managed to complete the dungeons and story-level raids with my guild. But I couldn’t PUG without inevitably being the target of a great deal of “failtard” vitriol, and just as often, being vote-kicked without warning. How in all of Azeroth I obtained the PUG pet from the appropriate achievement, I have no clue.

In truth, I played WoW strictly for the story. Blizzard tells an incomparable story. But Blizzard inevitably, and deliberately (Yes, I know exactly, the reasons why…) puts chunks of story content in the group content part of each expansion. Parts of the game that I simply could not, and cannot, keep up with. In Shadowlands, this was partially alleviated by making it possible to view the cinematics outside of the actual raids. But some valuable story content is during the actual game play, not in a “cut to…” scene. There was simply no way to view this without playing the content. YouTube was absolutely NOT sufficient; the video captures were inevitably sped up, the picture was zoomed well out for optimal game play during the fights, and players would often set the video to annoying background music. This is also true in earlier expansions. Add to this, I had missed the entire BFA expansion and was trying to catch up in between playing Shadowlands. This included trying to see those chunks of story in the BFA group content.

I was then exposed to an infuriating double standard from the player base: 1) I ask for help seeing this older group content and everyone would scream, “Stop wanting to be catered to.” 2) I would then say, fine, let’s all ask Blizzard for soloable versions of the group content, with appropriately toned down loot drops, and everyone would scream, “Learn 2 socialize.”

I do not want to be “catered to.” I am not anti social. I simply CANNOT, if the fate of the entire planet depended on it, play the game the same way most people would play Call of Duty. I am simply not a sufficient tank, not a sufficient healer, not a sufficient DPS to compete at high key keystone Dungeons or heroic raids. PERIOD. I stopped trying to “git gud,” because I’m not. I instead tried to find ways to see the story at my play level. And when much of the community was given proper explanations of my play level and style, they would often respond with “go play Chutes and Ladders” in a way that oozed ear-splitting screams of “Infinity infinities does not BEGIN to describe how INSULTED I am that you were ever even BORN!!!” (literally hundreds of exclamation points, ad nauseum)

That was at least some of why I left the game again very, very early during Dragonflight. Which brings us to: Why did I invest in a one-month subscription so I could post this?

I’ve heard that The War Within has follower modes, where you can play with a group of NPC’s, to finish story dungeons and the final bosses of the raids. This gives me hope that such a feature might eventually be expanded to older content, so I can finally see a great deal of what I missed. This would be enough that I might be interested in playing again-- for the story alone, not for the purpose of rushing to gear up and complete all the AOTC’s-- something I never succeeded in doing and quickly lost all interest in wanting to do. Playing at my own pace, without “wanting to be catered to,” and still able to socialize with the right people, in the right places and times-- not with people who think my ever having been born is the most colossal insult they’d ever been forced to bear, all because I can’t, even to save my life (or theirs), break 862 gazillion dps in a +50 keystone dungeon with one hand tied behind me.

If there’s anyone at all in the game who plays the game anywhere near similar to me, I ask you to also speak up. Maybe Blizzard might be willing to add some features to the rest of the game that frees us from the “catered to”/“socialize” double standard.

This post is not intended for “TL:DR” folks. I never joined Twitter/X because it was very likely invented especially for such like people.

For anyone who DID read: Thank you for your time.

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The older content you can solo? Am I missing something lol?

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I’m so happy for you! :heart:

Or sorry for your loss. :sob:

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Not reading all that so…

Good for you / that sucks man

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That is what I thought too. Why not just solo the older dungeons and raids? That is what I did.

For newer content there is no reason to ever do M+ if you do not like it. You can get the same story just by doing the follower dungeons. Raid is a bit trickier, but you can get the full experience by doing a normal raid, and people are sometimes not too picky about DPS in those. Could always do LFR for a more broken up experience. I know they have a story mode for raid now, but I have never done it so no idea what it entails.

It’s gotten better, They allow you to do a lot of things so you can see story content without missing much, but like most of blizzards attempts to fix things, I don’t waste my energy with this community, obviously not everyone is vitriol, It’s enough to never ask the question. “Why does this/that not work as intended.” It’s all a me me me mentality, you’ve been here before, You’ve been here for patch Tuesdays lol…

It would be nice to do that to older content so people could somewhat experience what we did when we did them, FF14 allows you to watch most cutscenes at the Inn, so you can see it as your leisure, they also had NewGame+, Unfortunately I doubt they care enough to do that and it would take an enormous amount of resources to do it, I’m actually surprised the housing system isn’t complete donk.

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I believe it’s just the last boss

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Ahh, thank you kindly. That kinda sucks then. Part of the fun is the jabs the NPCs trade throughout the instance. Just the last boss does not really communicate everything in a raid.

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I think it’ll be a very long time before we see the old content changed.

As it stands, the new player experience, which is Dragonflight from 10-70, has follower dungeons. And then War Within has follower dungeons, story mode final boss of the raids, and Delves.

Best I can tell you is to hit max level, then go back and do the old content, because you’ll be able to solo it.

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now im worried this might be concern trolling :wink:

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I ain’t reading all that. Im happy for you tho, or sorry that happened.

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A number of the expansions (I can’t recall which ones but I know there are a few) have the option to go to a NPC and pick LFR raids from that expansion to do solo. Assuming you have a character of the right level, you can easily walk through every raid for that expansion, hear all the npc talk, see all the fights (and get the gear too, which is nice for transmog). And for the much earlier ones you can solo them at any raid difficulty.

Follower dungeons work for the most recent dungeons, and anything earlier is soloable with the right level character. At least I believe that Shadowlands ones are, someone could confirm that for me.

So you do raids alone, you can do the majority of dungeons alone (if not all of them) and you can do Follower dungeons for the latest two expansions. I’d say from that the game has you pretty well covered.

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I have pug’d dungeons , but I am not inclined to do it often. It seems you need speed buffs to keep up with the level 11 tank or something and I prefer to enjoy dungeons rather than speed through them.
I typically focus on one expansion at a time, I would have completed shadowlands then looked at BFA rather than run back and forth.
If you absolutely feel the need to pug, bring a hunter or a warlock . You can faceroll the dungeon with a lock or hunter , then learn how to tank / heal it later.
I agree, low level follower dungeons would be cool. Time walking dungeons are usually laid back, but Timewalking followers would be cool too, they would eventually rotate through the expansions till you complete all of them, of course I am dreaming , but you might as well dream big.
M+ looks way too stressful and i am totally fine with Champion pve armor for endgame.
Which would be like speed running the dungeon with the added stress of not wiping the group while doing max dps/healing. Not for me.

I’m a bit confused.
I understand your ask.

Expand Follower Dungeons to more content and older expansions.

That’s fine. I’m fundamentally opposed to follower dungeons in general but since they’re already here that can of worms is already opened. Whatever. Expanding on what we already have makes sense.

But if you’re playing (played) WoW primarily for story, and your concern is not being able to perform up to par in group content that contains story… uhh… do lower difficulties?

Not a soul is kicking someone or even mentioning anything about someone for low DPS in an LFR environment. You can see the entire raid, ANY raid, in LFR. And older expansions have NPCs to solo queue into LFR (many of which have legacy buffs active so you can 1 shot everything)

Same for Normal Mode dungeons. No one cares if you’re bad.

In both cases, literally the only thing 90% of groups will raise a stink about is if your dot on the minimap isn’t somewhere near all the other dots. People don’t like other people to afk mooch. But if you’re with the group and hitting buttons, at this level of content, no one is telling you you’re bad and kicking you. I’m sorry but it’s just not happening. At least not in statistically relevant amounts.

Follower Dungeons are great for what you want out of the game. I’m happy that makes sense for you. I just don’t get why we’re talking about AotC and not being able to keep up with skilled players when you will get the story just fine from LFR and Normal Dungeons?

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There are new features that solve this problem. Follower Dungeons allow you to solo the dungeons of Dragon Flight and TWW along with NPC partners. Story Mode Raid allows you to use NPC followers to fight the final boss of the raid.

That fills in a lot of the blanks.

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I think if you really want to jump back into the game, you’ll find more fun and enjoyment playing with a guild that is more social. I started in a social guild when I first started playing war within and I didn’t encounter people who just rush through the dungeons. Everyone was equally pacing and learning the same game. So it might just be you’re playing with a different set of players.

Try to look around for a group of players that have the same goals and are on the same skill level as you, as you wont have that feeling of “trying to catch up”

War within is really fun, I’m really enjoying it but I am competitive player and I like that type of content. So I can’t really relate to your experience but I know that there are groups out there who would be the right fit for you, you just have to seek them out.

The best way I got entry into guilds was through guilds pugging in raids. When I met a good group of people, I just sent them a whisper and asked if they were recruiting. This late into the season, guilds are struggling with their rosters. So it’s been super easy as a healer! It might be different for other specs, but hey one whisper can’t hurt!

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I hate Twitter too, but a 1-2 sentence TLDR is good form when pumping out massive essays like this.

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I play a lot of solo content, and whenever I do group content, it is only with friends or guild mates. I don’t believe in randoms because most of them are just not my cup of tea.

I don’t know who the hell you’ve been playing with, but it was definitely the wrong people.

I’ve done the high keys, some mythic raiding, and most of the content by pugging solo.

However, if I’m on an alt and not super great with it yet, I write a disclaimer in my note or in game that I’m struggling to learn this toon and just want to see where I’m at now to look at logs later, KNOW WHAT YOU’RE SIGNING UP FOR. Most of the time, chill people will join and say they’re fine with carrying while I figure it out. People like that DO exist, you just have to find them - and being completely transparent is the best way to do it, imo.

You don’t HAVE to do high keys, there are communities that run Normal raid for newbies and alts that won’t mind you watching the story for the first time, and yes, follower dungeons and solo delves exist (which you would love!). It’s YOUR $15/mo, play it how you like. Be upfront with your intentions and skill level, and the right people will find you.

I hope this helps! :heart:

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:musical_note: Not much longer would you be mine
Oh, I heard it through the grapevine
Oh, I’m just about to lose my mind
Honey, honey, yeah (Heard it through the grapevine, not much longer would you be my baby) :musical_note:

CCR’s cover is the best version of this song

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