What Havoc DH’s Need (IMO)

A buff is a buff, and is always welcome, but it’s obvious a 5% buff to abilities will not be sufficient to fix the core problems with our class both in terms of performance and, more importantly, our design.

Firstly, a 5% buff to all our abilities cast will have a greater impact on aoe than it will ST, because in ST, (as an example), let’s say 20% of your overall damage is non-ability-related, which could be from melee attacks, trinket effects, or procs like eternal skirmish, shadowcore oil, and potions. In aoe, this number will lower dramatically because our abilities will comprise more of our damage.
While the buff is nice, the problem is that the buff to all abilities benefits aoe more than it does ST, and ST is really our biggest issue.

So, what’s obvious is that we need help in single target. With ST being the issue I think we should look to chaos strike as the means of solving our issue.

Easiest solution would be to simply buff the damage of chaos strike.

Blizzard does that, they’ll predominantly fix our core issue in terms of performance both in pve and our consistent dps in pvp (which is largely an issue. We cannot go toe to toe with any other melee class right now).

Still, design issues won’t be fixed, because we’ll have the same fundamental problems we’ve had since our inception in legion.

Few ideas for solutions that would be both reasonable in terms of difficulty of implementation and would give our baseline a semblance of synergy:

  1. Utilize what’s already an anima power and make immolation aura boost the damage done by chaos strike. Would read as *While immolation aura is active, your chaos strike deals an additional x% damage.

This would create synergy between two baseline abilities, and would further boost the value of our chaos theory legendary, because an immo aura window with a chaos theory proc would feel really impactful.

  1. Cause auto attacks to have a chance to increase the damage of your next chaos strike by x% (and give it a guaranteed crit chance?).

This would introduce a sorely-needed proc mechanic to our baseline rotation, and would encourage a fury-pooling style of gameplay, similar to what we’d already be doing with demonic and momentum. This would also further increase the value of haste, giving us additional stat scaling, because it would be a RPPM proc.

  1. Introduce a modifier to throw glaive, wherein the primary target struck by throw glaive will take x% increased damage by chaos strike for x seconds. It could also boost damage of eye beam? That way you won’t feel bad throwing a glaive before casting eye beam and taking advantage of the synergy with annihilation.

This encourages the use of an additional ability in our single target rotation we otherwise would not use (unless playing demon blades), creates synergy between two abilities, and similar to above, would reinforce a fury-pooling style of play.

  1. give chaos strike a dot component
    Perhaps critical strikes from chaos strike could put a dot on the target, stackable to up to x stacks. While this doesn’t do much in the way of rotational interaction, it would provide additional stat scaling in favor of critical strike.

Alternatively, chaos strike could simply put a dot on the target for up to x seconds. Applying additional stacks would increase the damage but not the duration.

Again, encourages a fury-pooling style of gameplay, because you’d want to chaos strike back-to-back as much as possible to get the dot to as high a stack as possible.

These are just some examples of ways blizzard could not only implement an increase to our ST rotation, but also actually provide rotational interaction, or at the very least additional considerations, such as fury pooling.

Feedback or other thoughts? While yes I absolutely want a greater buff to our ST, I’d rather see it accompanied by an enhancement to the quality of our rotation.

14 Likes

Make First Blood Baseline.
Bloodlet talent to replace it.
Blade Dance 20 fury cost.
When Chaos strike refunds fury it makes your next Blade Dance free.

Revamp our whole resource system on top of it? Our resource generator guilds 40 fury, Chaos strike is 30 fury cost and has a chance to refund 10 fury, Eyebeam free now because 30 second CD, Eyebeam needs to do more damage on main target period. Get rid of the immolation aura talent and just make it give us 10 fury every 1.5 seconds over the duration.

Give us another button that procs a hit off of chaos strike refunding fury. 0 cost maybe off GCD?

Just ideas.

4 Likes

I feel like Demon’s Bite could maybe have more interaction with Chaos Strike somehow? like maybe if Chaos Strike refunds Fury, your next Demon’s Bite deals an additional X% in Chaos damage, stackable up to 3 times. Or leaves a dot. But maybe that would through the tier 2 talent row off balance in terms of performance. idk I’m not thinking this through all the way.

Also, if First Blood becomes baseline (lol) maybe have Blade Dance’s fury cost on a sliding scale (15-50) and increases AOE damage based on how much fury is used, that way you have to kind of think when to press BD in different situations, and better manage your fury.

1 Like

What I’m mainly trying to do is isolate the immediate problem and propose relatively simple ideas that correct it while alleviating the problem of a lackluster baseline. I’m trying to do this without suggesting overhauls or things that are unlikely to be seen until next expansion.

Knowing chaos strike is the easiest problem to fix, I focused on it, which is why I’m not really talking about first blood being baseline or anything like that.

That said, one idea I’d like from your proposal is the interaction with chaos strike refunding fury with another ability.

Maybe instead of it proc’ing another ability every single time it refunds fury, it could generate a stack, up to a maximum of three, which enhances the damage of another ability. That way the proc isn’t so disruptive in that it’s chaos strike x chaos strike x chaos strike x etc etc. Each time you chaos strike you’re potentially generating a charge and building that excitement. Again though, separate wishlist.

Personally I think it’s always better for the generator to enhance the spender, rather than the other way around. In essence this is similar to my first proposal. The reason I made it based on auto attacks rather than demon’s bite, however, is because of the consideration of demon blades. If you have a baseline proc mechanic based on demon’s bite, it would likely force you to take demon blades (similar to the way felblade all but forces you to take demon blades). To avoid that I made it based on auto attacks.

This is effectively similar to a feral Druid’s ferocious bite. Personally I’m not a huge fan of this because we don’t have two differing resources, one of which passively regenerates. It works with a feral Druid because it’s lower priority (you don’t dump ferocious bite unless you have a healthy rip on the target) (also my understanding of the feral Druid rotation may be outdated. It’s been a while since I’ve played one); DH’s not so much. As a havoc dh, my worry is that the rotation would then simply be build fury to spend it on an enormous blade dance. I don’t think it works because we haven’t worked hard enough to earn the burst, if that makes sense.
For the feral Druid, you have to adhere to the spender priority system, build up five charges, and let energy get full before you have a strong and rotationally sound ferocious bite.

We would simply need to build fury

2 Likes

I love how Haugs is always out here with the fire ideas. Honestly you’ve been relentless with the different ways we can fix the class at its core.

Deep down though I know we both are just going to run with our chaos theories (crafting mine tomorrow) and pray we see the sun again.

Not a fotm player so I’m sticking it through, but man I haven’t been this tilted in a while. Arena had me freak out last night for the first time :slight_smile:

2 Likes

Thanks! It’s all for nothing but I’d rather still put the ideas out there.

I’ll always main a havoc dh as well. It’s been my favorite class since Warcraft 3 and I want it to be fun to play in addition to it performing reasonably well

yeah that actually makes a lot of sense.

honestly, they gotta just use your class rework from a few months back

I’d make a lot of changes to that rework. Fun thing about thinking about havoc dh designs is any idea feels obsolete after a day cause there’s always something to improve.

Blizzard’s just gonna do what blizzard’s gonna do. I just wish they’d kill two birds with one stone. Balance our performance and enhance the rotation at the same time. Win win and efficient

Some great ideas here! Chaos Strike is absolutely what needs focused on since our AoE really isn’t the issue. #3 is my favorite out of these ideas. Just adding Throw Glaive in there as part of a rotation or even a proc of some sort would be great. Have Chaos Strike when it refunds fury give a chance to proc a Throw Glaive that does triple the damage, or it leaves a dot, or something similar. Would be great for ST and Cleave, but not too OP in AoE I’d think (unless it had a wonky chemistry w/the Legendary I guess lol).

3 Likes

Blizzard needs to tell us what a Havoc Demon Hunter actually is before they start trying to balance one.

If we didn’t have the weapon in Legion, the Azurite in BFA, or Conduits/Legendarys in SL, what would we be?

Every expansion we get half of a class and have to build the rest of it through some convoluted system that lasts only for a single expansion at a time.

This varies from player to player, but my favorite version of HDH was at the end of Legion. Every thing felt right. Every ability and talent felt good. The weapon traits just basically being integrated into the class passively felt like the class was whole.

Then BFA hit, and we lost literally our entire weapon tree with nothing significant to replace it… until Azurite gear! Then we had to farm specific pieces just to once again, complete the DH class. And we never got Glaive Tempest back until SL… as a talent.

Same thing - different system in SL. Only this time, while leveling, most of our cool stuff was tied to higher ranks of said ability, like Meta resetting the CD of Eye Beam/Blade Dance, and Eye Beam giving haste when it finishes.

It just feels bad having your class be gated.

2 Likes

now they need to hear you

Felblade should also be baseline

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Returning some leech would be a good start as well. Something to help in pvp.

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I like this a lot, because it doesn’t buff our already good burst AOE, but gives us needed ST dmg and complexity.

I wonder what a sim would look like if you calculated 100% chaos dmg bonus when IA is active, it would probably make us competitive in ST but also give PvP a signal when we are doing added ST damage too.

I could be happy with this change. They could change the anima power to chaos strike adds 1 second to immolation aura or something like that.

Haugs you always have pretty good ideas for this class.

My main for the foreseeable future will be DH…granted I’m an altaholic and am leveling my 6th toon to 60…

1 Like