In Stonetalon Garrosh was utterly disgusted with Overlord Krom’gar killing civilians, innocents, and children. This rage he had was genuine as he killed Krom’gar for it…where did that Garrosh go, the one who did Theramore and atrocities in Orgrimmar doesnt seem like it can be the same person.
Garrosh must have had multiple personality disorder, those two stances cannot co-exist.
If I recall correctly, it was some kind of miscommunication error on Blizzard’s part that somehow made it to live.
Did you play Mists of Pandaria? You should look through that lore, learn about Shas, etc. Also check Garrosh in WotLK. He pops up in a bunch of places: Borean Tundra, TotC, etc. The simplest way to put it is he was somewhat of an Orc nationalist who found his way into power. In Cataclysm he was starting wars all over Kalimdor to pretty much conquer the landmass altogether. In Pandaria the same is true; however, unbeknownst to him at first he was corrupted by the Sha of Pride. It is a very conceivable story, sorry.
I might also add that in the Stonetalon Mountains Overlord Krom’gar killed people who were connected to the Horde - the tauren. Theramore is an enemy fortress located dangerously close to Orgrimmar. Daelin Proudmoore is also known for detesting the Horde - so his actions are conceivable if you take in context with who Garrosh is a heart - especially during a time where warring was happening all over Azeroth?
Different writers wrote different areas, which is part of why Cata feels a bit disjointed at times.
That said, Garrosh may have descended into supremacist madness, but it was a journey to get there. In Northrend, Garrosh was a hamfisted idiot that Saurfang had to keep in check. He DID learn form this, and made some progress, but then descended back into is baser nature.
Garrosh’s personality was drawn and quartered by Blizzard. I think Stonetalon Garrosh was the left leg.
Alex Afrasiabi actually answered about what happened with Stonetalon:
He was.
He was? Tell us about that – why he had that shift.
Miscommunication.
So Stonetalon …
Me.
You did Stonetalon?
I did Stonetalon.
I didn’t stick to that path with Garrosh. I didn’t – not everyone was on board. Not everyone got the memo as it were, as we were designing – and that was my fault. Because when you’re doing, when you’re trying – because I was actually trying to bring Garrosh around, and Stonetalon was going to be the first of that. Cataclysm was pretty crazy time for us.
You had so much to do.
We did quite a lot of work. So I feel like there was a little bit of miscommunication on my part that kind of led to Garrosh going down another, darker path. So there’s an interesting tidbit for you.
It was interesting though, in the aspect of seeing that glimmer of what he could have been.
Well he was good at the other way. He did well at that. He was a good killer and plunderer and murderer.
Garrosh is an interesting character that was one of the first exclusively WoW major characters with an entire character arc, across five different expansions. It’s mentioned a few times ingame he actually had a great deal of potential and could have been the greatest Warchief the Horde ever had according to some of the Bronze Dragonflight, but we got the Orc supremacist instead.
There was a lot of weird back and forth as to how the game depicted his character, and whether or not we should have been sympathetic. Ultimately though, it came out a couple years ago or so that the Stonetalon moment was a miscommunication, with the quest designer having been under the impression Garrosh would become a hero, when he was slated to be a villain from the start.
He went from depressed loser in BC, to arrogant hothead in Wrath, had a moment during Cata where he was respectable, and then back to arrogant hothead for the rest of his life.
What I really bemoan though, is how close he came to becoming an amazing character.
Garrosh could have been great, he really could have followed a similar character arc to Varian in my opinion(especially early Varian). Would have been nice seeing them grow older as somewhat of rivals(minus the huge pointless faction war that ruined Garrosh’s character). He really could have been an interesting Warchief had he taken his Stonetalon path, would have loved to seen dialogue between older him and Saurfang. Instead we got evil moustache twirling racism followed by old god tentacles blah blah blah.
I never understood the people who looked at Wrath Garrosh and said “this guy has to be bad.”
I saw a lot of promise in him and at first I thought he would be a better Warchief than Thrall, who was so focused on idealism (with good ideals!) that he couldn’t see the Horde he was actually leading. Thrall could become an advisor.
But afaik only two characters in the history of Warcraft games have been shown to do something intentionally bad, allowed to sit with the fact they did something bad on-screen, and grow from it without retcon: Grommash (MU) and Jaina. Everyone else just gets a hard villain bat or if you’re Illidan, hero-bat.
The funny thing is that he told his servant Ishi that there is killing and then there is murder…
Blizzard statements noted that Theramore was a military target unlike the Druid School. Furthermore the Novel showed that Garrosh made certain to have his armies fighting the Alliance Soldiers until all the civilians had left on boats before unleashing the bomb.
Said boats were captured by Garrosh who proceeded to control them by fear of losing their children. Of course considering his statements to Ishi(“There is killing and then there is murder.”) the Warchief was clearly bluffing.
It pushed that Garrosh snapped around his failure to push the alliance out of Kalimdor in Tides of War.
Rewrites. I think Star Wars went through a more blunter phase with Last Jedi.
The offical story is cause miscommunication
I think its cause the players just hated him tooo much
A little bit of column A, a little bit of column B. Writers were mixed on what to do with Garrosh and the fact that he was unpopular among the fan base helped cemented his eventual heel turn.
I think people’s opinion soured on Wrath Garrosh when, A: He sends you alone as reinforcement to stop a Necrolord, and only survive it because Saurfang saves your bacon. https://www.wowhead.com/quest=11705/foolish-endeavors#comments
And B: You get a secret message from Saurfang who predicts that Garrosh will lead the Horde down a dark path. https://www.wowhead.com/quest=12033/message-from-the-west
The letter contents being:
(Name),
If you are reading this letter then you are alive and in one piece - or at least you still have your eyes.
I must apologize for the secrecy. Agmar demands that all mail is read before delivery - too many traitors and thieves there, as the wanted poster no doubt displays. There are delicate matters herein that could easily be misconstrued by the new guard.
For a soldier of the Horde, loss is absolute. Loss means death and there is no negotiation or interpretation with death. One can only hope that the manner of their death was honorable.
But victory … Victory can mean many things. As you have probably noticed, the Kor’kron are there in full force. The Warchief has sent his elite guard to help secure victory in Northrend. They, along with you and other heroes, are pushing the Lich King and his forces towards an inevitable conclusion. With each challenge you overcome, we are one step closer to ridding our world of Arthas and the Scourge.
And therein lays the dilemma. For you see our forces in Northrend work under the auspices of young Hellscream. Each victory bolsters the morale of the Horde forces here, which carries through to the rest of Azeroth.
It is unfortunate, then, that Hellscream employs such savage tactics. As victory approaches, Hellscream gains further justification for his methods, which in turn brings us closer to a place we have not been in many years: a dark place.
I have sent my son to command our forces at the Wrathgate. I know that he will battle with honor and I remain hopeful that his courage and tenacity will be noticed and emulated by our forces. He is my heart and strength in a place that I cannot be… You will be my eyes and ears. Together, we will make it right.
Blood and Thunder … May your arrival bring them both.
Saurfang
And aside from that, the way he conducts himself was generally more irritating then anything. He wasn’t regarded very fondly.
I’d completely forgotten about those two things, though I do remember being annoyed with Garrosh in that moment. The thing of it is though that annoyance doesn’t mean that the next place to take the character is evulz or raid boss.
Or at least, it shouldn’t.
I think it’s good when there are characters on our ‘side’ that irritate the heck out of us but aren’t actually evil or completely incompetent. (As long as it’s not the entirety of the side, and we had HIGH OVERLORD SAURFANG so I mean, Garrosh’s teen phase wasn’t the entirety of what we were dealing with.)
what I never understand is garrosh valued strength but tauren and ogres are stronger than orcs
You’re right, the next step shouldn’t be evulz or raid boss. I wholeheartedly believe if Garrosh didn’t get slated to be a villain early on, he actually could have had a really interesting character progression, from whiny defeatist who is afraid to do anything, to arrogant hothead, to wise leader.
Some of the best examples of what could have been is Christie Golden’s ‘The Shattering’ wherein Garrosh takes Cairne’s life during a Mak’gora and later on is remorseful. Magatha, who had poisoned Garrosh’s weapon prior to the Mak’gora, takes control of Thunder Bluff during the power vacuum, and sends a letter to Garrosh requesting aid in holding Thunder Bluff. Garrosh, having learned of how Magatha had manipulated his honorable duel with Cairne was furious, and replied with a letter wishing her a violent death, and that she would be getting no help.
Now it’s worth noting that Garrosh wasn’t necessarily upset that Cairne had died, but that he’d unwittingly robbed Cairne of a fair fight, and that Magatha had robbed Garrosh of his own honor. Not the most altruistic of motivations, but it felt consistent and respectable.
As I recall, there’s even mention of how in his quiet moments of contemplation, Garrosh could be overheard muttering to himself, “What would the old bull do?..” clearly in reference to Cairne. Felt like a pretty clear show of respect and even possibly admiration for who Cairne was, despite what happened between them.
And towards the end of the book, Garrosh actually tries to mend bridges with Baine for Cairne’s death, and is pleasantly surprised and impressed when Baine tells him Magatha is to blame, and offers Garrosh the loyalty of the Tauren.
It felt like there was an entire character arc here, wherein Garrosh learns respect for his allies, or the Tauren at least, and excited me for how we could see his character become this experienced, wise leader, in a character we were there to see from the beginning. Even kicking out the Darkspear out of Orgrimmar at first seemed like it was building to a similar resolution wherein he’d learn to respect his troll allies.
Then MoP happened.